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The best school of football for Australia

Best School of Football to deploy

  • KNVB Mythology

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Clairefontaine (France)

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • Italian style

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • English route one (Charles Hughes)

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • None

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Total voters
    12
Muz said:
How about we start a thread that attacks you personally because that's exactly what this is and see how you like it.

I'm no mate of Decentric's as anyone from the other forum will tell you. (Didn't even make his list of illustrious posters worthy of transitioning to the new site.)

This is nothing more than a personal attack on him. Trying to defend this just makes you look more like the idiot you are. You are your mates 20 year campaign against him from FA and on 442 is nothing less than outright harassment.
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Yeah but how did you vote 😁
 
Keeper66 said:
No doubt this is the work of a troll (what we used to call a shit-stirrer back in the pre-internet days), but don't get wound up by it, just ignore it. It is quite clear by the reference to KNVB "Mythology" what the intentions of the writer are. I find it hard to believe some of you guys apparently think it is genuine and start talking about the real KNVB, defending the NC, etc.

If there is a group here trying to stifle genuine discussion (and I agree that this appears to be the case), then the way it will do this is by responding to them. Just ignore them, or poke fun at them if you want. But don't take it seriously, all this does is encourage them.
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Look I've been telling other genuine guys to ignore the trolls, Keeper.

I'm not personally upset by the thread title, but it has been set up to destabilise G and G.

The FFA NC which was debated robustly about 12 -14 years ago on an anti- A L , Socceroos, Matildas, right wing forum , has produced massive benefits. A few of us have gone to that dark place of a forum where Australian football - Socceroos, Matildas, A League, Underage national teams, etc - was and have been continually castigated by Eurosnobs and Bitters.

Most of us felt a lot of empathy for the old NSL ethnic clubs who have felt excluded. There are plenty of nice people off forum involved in NPL ethnic football who don't hate the entire pro football scene in Aus and FFA, or the newer FA. I've played for one ethnic NPL club and coached at another ethnic NPL club - who have just amalgamated today. They are not cynical 'Bitters'.

Just to even the score, I might do a tongue in cheek background thread on all the individual new trolls derailing threads - in Off Topic session - if Pasquali consents? They've lurked or dipped their oar into the water, or actively trolled on 442/IS forever ( with many bans occurring) since its inception. It might be fair for the subjects of the trolling to know a bit about the idiosyncracies of the new trolls before they are banned.

This G and G football forum has been a fantastic new outlet for Aus football. A few of us off forum have been quite sad that nothing would adequately replace 442/IS. Thanks to Pasquali it has.

As far as the KNVB, its relationship to the NC goes, along with Spain, France and Germany, most of the IS posters are probably sick to death of me delineating its characteristics. I was indoctrinated within an hour of KNVB staff coaches Arie Schans and Ad Derkson brought to Aus by Rob Baan, educating us in sound elite youth coaching practices.

Nearly all our top current Aus coaches went through the first KNVB Youth course a week ( 10 days long) before the plebs did theirs. Popa, Muscat, Ange, the Vidmars, Corica, Veart, Tobin, Rudan, Sterjovski, Milicic, etc.

Arthur Papas and James Lambert were in with us plebs. They were blown out by the new football content too. As was, Kelly Cross, former senior coach in the Socceroo Australia coaching hierarchy.
 
Decentric said:
Look I've been telling other genuine guys to ignore the trolls, Keeper.

I'm not personally upset by the thread title, but it has been set up to destabilise G and G.

The FFA NC which was debated robustly about 12 -14 years ago on an anti- A L , Socceroos, Matildas, right wing forum , has produced massive benefits. A few of us have gone to that dark place of a forum where Australian football - Socceroos, Matildas, A League, Underage national teams, etc - was and have been continually castigated by Eurosnobs and Bitters.

Most of us felt a lot of empathy for the old NSL ethnic clubs who have felt excluded. There are plenty of nice people off forum involved in NPL ethnic football who don't hate the entire pro football scene in Aus and FFA, or the newer FA. I've played for one ethnic NPL club and coached at another ethnic NPL club - who have just amalgamated today. They are not cynical 'Bitters'.

Just to even the score, I might do a tongue in cheek background thread on all the individual new trolls derailing threads - in Off Topic session - if Pasquali consents? They've lurked or dipped their oar into the water, or actively trolled on 442/IS forever ( with many bans occurring) since its inception. It might be fair for the subjects of the trolling to know a bit about the idiosyncracies of the new trolls before they are banned.

This G and G football forum has been a fantastic new outlet for Aus football. A few of us off forum have been quite sad that nothing would adequately replace 442/IS. Thanks to Pasquali it has.

As far as the KNVB, its relationship to the NC goes, along with Spain, France and Germany, most of the IS posters are probably sick to death of me delineating its characteristics. I was indoctrinated within an hour of KNVB staff coaches Arie Schans and Ad Derkson brought to Aus by Rob Baan, educating us in sound elite youth coaching practices.

Nearly all our top current Aus coaches went through the first KNVB Youth course a week ( 10 days long) before the plebs did theirs. Popa, Muscat, Ange, the Vidmars, Corica, Veart, Tobin, Rudan, Sterjovski, Milicic, etc.

Arthur Papas and James Lambert were in with us plebs. They were blown out by the new football content too. As was, Kelly Cross, former senior coach in the Socceroo Australia coaching hierarchy.
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I've always been curious why the ntc got even more heat than the shutdown of the nsl for the a league. The sheer passion people had against the ntc was baffling. Passion for your club being locked out of a top tier, especially with plausible claims of xenophobia being the cause, it by contrast a pretty legitimate grievance
 
Barca4life said:
If this a joke well played you have truely have got me! :LOL:

But in all serious do we know anything from Ernie Merrick's technical 10 point which has supposed to replace the old FFA NC? Apparently grassroots courses have changed but otherwise ive heard very little from Merrick and FA regarding the youth development space and where its going.

I still think the FFA NC was a good guide but needed refining over time to keep up with modern trends, but too much focus has been on tearing it down rather than improving the document and now its not in the FA website anymore so there you go.
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Welcome to the forum, Barca!
 
troll thread is being derailed by legitimate chats :D

@barca I think the state academies are part of the 10 point plan, he signalled this in an interview i read way back. It got a pretty bitter reaction online, though aussie scout and a few others think it will be a good thing. As with most things in oz, it is difficult to tell without more detail

JJ after the world cup said he is looking to restart the ais as well
 
grazorblade said:
I've always been curious why the ntc got even more heat than the shutdown of the nsl for the a league. The sheer passion people had against the ntc was baffling. Passion for your club being locked out of a top tier, especially with plausible claims of xenophobia being the cause, it by contrast a pretty legitimate grievance
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It was amazing the animosity from many in the Aus football community. To think they were arguing against the Dutch, and the French , Spanish and German practices being adopted In Aus, is simply astonishing! Previously we had ad hoc practices. Coaching quality was different everywhere in Aus, with no uniform practices and no way of keeping abreast of quality across the country.

Even a few coaches as recent as Frank Farina, senior coach at Roar, SFC and Socceroos before Guus, in particular was antagonistic and recalcitrant. There was another famous Socceroo, whose name I can't remember, who overtly refuted it. Craig Johnston ridiculed it too.

When Arthur Papas was coaching at a Victorian ethnic NPL club, the senior coach went back to the club and said, 'We had to do this Dutch youth coaching shit for 10 days.'

Mike Edwards, a former Assistant Aus U 20 women's assistant coach, FFA coach educator, NTC coach and Melb Vic female coach, claimed it was just that, 'Some people don't like change.'

Rob Baan wasn't prepared to stay on as FFA Tech D and implement a NC, because of the push back. Thankfully, Han Berger was made of much tougher stuff! He berated any coaches who ignored the NC at national Aus underage titles. Thankfully, he was quite forceful, and booted any recalcitrants out of key coaching development positions.
 
Decentric said:
It was amazing the animosity from many in the Aus football community. To think they were arguing against the Dutch, and the French , Spanish and German practices being adopted In Aus, is simply astonishing! Previously we had ad hoc practices. Coaching quality was different everywhere in Aus, with no uniform practices and no way of keeping abreast of quality across the country.

Even a few coaches as recent as Frank Farina, senior coach at Roar, SFC and Socceroos before Guus, in particular was antagonistic and recalcitrant. There was another famous Socceroo, whose name I can't remember, who overtly refuted it. Craig Johnston ridiculed it too.

When Arthur Papas was coaching at a Victorian ethnic NPL club, the senior coach went back to the club and said, 'We had to do this Dutch youth coaching shit for 10 days.'

Mike Edwards, a former Assistant Aus U 20 women's assistant coach, FFA coach educator, NTC coach and Melb Vic female coach, claimed it was just that, 'Some people don't like change.'

Rob Baan wasn't prepared to stay on as FFA Tech D and implement a NC, because of the push back. Thankfully, Han Berger was made of much tougher stuff! He berated any coaches who ignored the NC at national Aus underage titles. Thankfully, he was quite forceful, and booted any recalcitrants out of key coaching development positions.
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The downside mind u was we started using inexperienced coaches look after our under age rep teams. I wonder we didnt follow on from hiring coaches like Jan Verjeilson

Interesting that even england has the equivalent of a curriculum (they dont call it that, but same thing. Free grass roots course with different sample sessions fot different ages then u pay for higher courses)
 
20 years of NC and 20 years of robotic mediocre players coming through that system. Decentric was spruiking the NC and KNVB on 442 15 years ago and the milieu there were saying this next generation are going to be special.... well look what has happened over that ensuing 15 years with our youth teams and our player development. We still have fucking Mitch Duke as our #1 striker in the Socceroos.
 
Lupi said:
20 years of NC and 20 years of robotic mediocre players coming through that system. Decentric was spruiking the NC and KNVB on 442 15 years ago and the milieu there were saying this next generation are going to be special.... well look what has happened over that ensuing 15 years with our youth teams and our player development. We still have fucking Mitch Duke as our #1 striker in the Socceroos.
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You've been selective on the weakest link in the players we are developing.

If one looks at comprehensive data, the current issue is goal conversion for the number of balls played into the pen box, and usually the amount of territory and possession that Aus has had indicates finishing is a current weakness.

I understand, as I'm not in the Football Aus 'lup' anymore, that a greater portion of training in the NC will be taken up with scoring goals.

What you haven't alluded to is the quality of proactive football played from defence to attack.

Build ups are more organised with off the ball movement revolving around diamonds and triangles in the team shape.

The tactical acumen of Aussie players is now good, but Asian sides have caught up. Who says what to whom in organising the defensive formation in BPO, has improved.

The communication between and within the lines has improved. Teams are better at holding defensive and attacking shape.

The development system of 4-3-3 and it derivatives, the attacking midfield triangle and the defensive midfield triangle, have enabled Aus to play this complex shape well and easily adapt to other easier shapes too.

The four main moments are well drilled in Aus teams.

Analysis involves the three thirds of the pitch - Ball Possession and BPO in every third.

Comprehensive game analyses - who, when, where, what, why and how problems are occurring.

Technique which was dragging a bit, has improved when one looks at the U 23s and younger who have had 10 years of NC coaching in underage development.

Now empirically speaking, these results have occurred.

2015 - Socceroos won the Asian Cup.

201? - Matildas won the Asian Cup.

2022 World Cup - Aus finished 11th.

2022 - Matildas finished 4th.

2006 - 2022 Socceroos qualified for 5 successive WCs. From 1974 - 2006 sadly saw 32 years of Socceroo failure to qualify for WCs at senior level.

In a country where football struggles to gain media attention, Aus is doing pretty well.
 
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Looking at number of players who got at least 25 games in a decent league (spl, championship, epl, eredivisie, seri b etc) or higher by the age of u24 there does seem to be improvement of late. There are cofounding variables, the 1st rollout was 2009 and the 2nd was 2014. Those getting the full benefit are born 2006. Even still we do seem to see an improvement. *'s mean I am not confident I have a full list of aussie players for those years

1976* 1
1977* 0
1978* 5
1979* 4
1980* 2
1981*1
1982* 1
1983* 1
1984* 2
1985* 1
1986* 0
1987* 1
1988 2
1989 3
1990 1
1991 4
1992 3
1993 2
1994. 1
1995. 1
1996. 2
1997. 0
1998. 3
1999. 2
2000. 3
2001. 1+ 2 getting regular game time, cohort ends at end of season
2002. 2+1 starting when fit cohort ends at end of 25/26 season
2003. 2+2 getting regular game time, 1 injured, cohort ends at end of 26/27 season
2004 1 getting regular game time, possibly a second, cohort ends at end of 27/28 season

We will get a better picture in the next two years, but it does look like there is improvement, especially when you consider that those who make the cut skew older, so 2002 and 2003 will probably boost by at least a couple each. My guess is 2002 ends up with 4-5 and 2003 ends up with 6-10. I suspect we see the effects of ending p&r which meant our development declined badly before the npl. Ending the nyl and AIS, and not replacing coaches like Jans with experienced ones, probably caused a trough in our development for birth years 92-97 before things started improving. Those born 98-2002 are probably getting the edge of the ntc and seeing a modest boost in quality and those that got more years in the ntc (2003 and later) seem better again. In my view a ntc is just one part of a pyramid. It would be interesting to see what these numbers would look like with an ais combined with a nyl if either of those get reintroduced. We hopefully get to see a nst in 2026 which probably helps birth years 2008 and higher.

In any case, it's probably not yet time for advocates of the ntc to pop open the champaigne, but I won't begrudge them a pint
 
In the title poll, there is a degree of ignorance.

To have French Clairefontane and the Dutch KNVB listed as being separate, is flawed.

There is a lot of crossover between them. Both systems have been analysed and extrapolated in the Aus NC.

I could bore readers with salient differences.
 
Decentric said:
In the title poll, there is a degree of ignorance.

To have French Clairefontane and the Dutch KNVB listed as being separate, is flawed.

There is a lot of crossover between them. Both systems have been analysed and extrapolated in the Aus NC.

I could bore readers with salient differences.
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In a separate thread I'd be curious about the differences and similarities with other systems. I can compare grassroots english
 
grazorblade said:
The downside mind u was we started using inexperienced coaches look after our under age rep teams. I wonder we didnt follow on from hiring coaches like Jan Verjeilson

Interesting that even england has the equivalent of a curriculum (they dont call it that, but same thing. Free grass roots course with different sample sessions fot different ages then u pay for higher courses)
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How do you access the free training courses?
 
Quicky said:
How do you access the free training courses?
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in england or australia? In england you might need a vpn, but it is free

Courses | England Football Learning

Learn to coach a local team, develop and identify talent, and much more. Get info on all courses, check your eligibility and register today.
learn.englandfootball.com learn.englandfootball.com

In australia there are in person/zoom courses

Coaching

www.footballaustralia.com.au www.footballaustralia.com.au

If you do the free england courses they give you free sample sessions for different age groups. They split up into 5-11 and 12-18 whereas we do 5-8, 9-12, 13-17

We have free sample sessions in our pdf https://www.footballaustralia.com.a...nal Curriculum_1ma6qrmro1pyq10gzxo5rcn7ld.pdf
 
Lupi said:
20 years of NC and 20 years of robotic mediocre players coming through that system. Decentric was spruiking the NC and KNVB on 442 15 years ago and the milieu there were saying this next generation are going to be special.... well look what has happened over that ensuing 15 years with our youth teams and our player development. We still have fucking Mitch Duke as our #1 striker in the Socceroos.
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Its what happens when "new football" takes over the hen house. Some view football as an intellectual exercise and despite countless "fact finding missions" overseas and gleaning wisdom from the sharpest scientific football minds in the known universe (at least according to the AFL/NRL loving teachers and accountants in Football House), miss the point completely. Mediocrity for Australian football is the end game for those within the system who should know better. As for those who only realised football is a sport post Lowy.. they don't know any better and just parrot the latest pseudo-babble they "research"... it used to really piss me off, now I just skip past it..... or at least try to :)
 
Muz said:
Yeah but we're mates now.
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Absolutely we are mates now, that's sort of my point bud. We see eye to eye on a vast spectrum of topics, politically, socially and football wise and one day, in this life or the next, we will have a shit-tonne of beers together (yes yes I know I have to convince you that there is a afterlife first 🙏 )

We are, however, diametrically opposed on MANY topics, in fact most of us on here have opposing views on many things. What binds us all together, is that by hook or by crook, we all fell in love with this stupid game played with a round ball all over the world... I guarantee you have alot more in common with Lupi than other people you come across in your day to day life... fuck it mate, life is too short to get pissed off over opposing political views....

I love EVERYONE here, even those who post absolute garbage that I 100% disagree with.... Happy Friday pricks.
 
Muz said:
How about we start a thread that attacks you personally because that's exactly what this is and see how you like it.

I'm no mate of Decentric's as anyone from the other forum will tell you. (Didn't even make his list of illustrious posters worthy of transitioning to the new site.)

This is nothing more than a personal attack on him. Trying to defend this just makes you look more like the idiot you are. You are your mates 20 year campaign against him from FA and on 442 is nothing less than outright harassment.
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there's a genuine discussion to be had about youth football systems in Australia.
 
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