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I often wonder what would have happened in the Holy Lands if the Nazi's had won WW2. In 1941 the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Adolf Hitler and was assured that all Jews would be eradicated by Germany in the Holy Lands.

Hitler said he would not interfere in Arab affairs in the Middle East as long as he was able to kill all Jews under his 'Final Solution' agenda in the British Palestine Mandate. So Israel wouldn't have been formed in 1948.

The Jewish (what was left of them) homeland or State would have to be somewhere else. Possibly in North America. Ararat in New York State was one proposal that was to be a 'City of Refuge' for Jews.
 
No one mentions religion. Israel & Jews in general have identified culturally and spiritually with that land for about 8,000 years. They're not going anywhere no matter what anyone says. And they would without a seconds hesitation take the Sampson option. During the 1967 war when they were on the brink of being overrun they were going to go nuclear. Don't think they wouldn't consider again. Make no mistake a decision was made at the highest levels of goverment and military the day of October 7 that the only solution was the elimination of Palestine. This is where we are at and why this is all happening.
I believe this to be the case as well.... Netanyahooo's govnmt, already shaky in its local support, perhaps didnt create the opportunity but they certainly jumped on the Oct 7 events as a way to get public opinion back on side... Eliminating an eternal existential threat will be a strong move to cement their continued leadership. What they didnt bank on was their own people's and western medias stomach for the bloody genocide that would facilitate such a move.

* All above just opinion for those meticulous arshats that will ask fro proof from my ilk
 
I often wonder what would have happened in the Holy Lands if the Nazi's had won WW2. In 1941 the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Adolf Hitler and was assured that all Jews would be eradicated by Germany in the Holy Lands.

Hitler said he would not interfere in Arab affairs in the Middle East as long as he was able to kill all Jews under his 'Final Solution' agenda in the British Palestine Mandate. So Israel wouldn't have been formed in 1948.

The Jewish (what was left of them) homeland or State would have to be somewhere else. Possibly in North America. Ararat in New York State was one proposal that was to be a 'City of Refuge' for Jews.
well, If the Nazis had won, the middle east would be owned by ARAL or Bayernoil and the Arab population would be fenced off and used a giant hunting reserve for fat Bavarians to holiday and hunt them some sub-human flesh for supper.
 
agree 100% but it;'s also hard to be across everything.
I know you don't agree but I think it has a little to do with anti-semetism .. Instead of getting behind a Christian population like the Kurds, the "freedom lovers pty ltd" find it more palatable, for some reason, to treat Jews as the evil enemy... Its a hard pill to swallow but I do think it is at least ONE of the reasons.... Nobody cared in the west about the Palestinians (sadly, their plight is horrifying) until the muslim diaspora around the world started making some noise.. its an easy "cause" to jump on the bandwagon of, and the fundamental message is fair and just.... but Im not convinced on the reasons behind the support is all.
 
Israel and America made deals with, used and placated terrorist groups and got blow back for it. America made a deal with the Taliban to undermine Russia who flew those planes into the towers on 9/11 and Israel got cozy with Hamas to undermine the Palestine Authority and by proxy destabilise Palestine and Hamas responded in kind by doing 7/10. Both of them embarked/embarking on a long war of attrition with an uncertain ending.
 
I know you don't agree but I think it has a little to do with anti-semetism .. Instead of getting behind a Christian population like the Kurds, the "freedom lovers pty ltd" find it more palatable, for some reason, to treat Jews as the evil enemy... Its a hard pill to swallow but I do think it is at least ONE of the reasons.... Nobody cared in the west about the Palestinians (sadly, their plight is horrifying) until the muslim diaspora around the world started making some noise.. its an easy "cause" to jump on the bandwagon of, and the fundamental message is fair and just.... but Im not convinced on the reasons behind the support is all.

I think people have cared about that issue, it's just now it's so out of control they are becoming more vocal.

What is clear is the governments of leading arab countries don't care. The saudis for example would have the power to end it tomorrow if they wanted

But it benefits them for a number of reasons....
 
Israel and America made deals with, used and placated terrorist groups and got blow back for it. America made a deal with the Taliban to undermine Russia who flew those planes into the towers on 9/11 and Israel got cozy with Hamas to undermine the Palestine Authority and by proxy destabilise Palestine and Hamas responded in kind by doing 7/10. Both of them embarked/embarking on a long war of attrition with an uncertain ending.

Yep, pretty much. Some have alleged that this was a 'divide and conquer' strategy..

I think that initially Israel or at least Bibi Netanyahu thought by 'bringing in' the Muslim Brotherhood affiliated Hamas that they were just a bunch of religious freaks with foreign backers who were small potatoes compared to the PLO/PA....

Hamas was previously not as radical. They started off as an Islamic charity, at the time the PLO/PA were Marxists and Israel hoped they’d be a more reasonable alternative.

The idea was that Hamas would agree to Israeli rule and would focus on religious affairs while avoiding violence. But Hamas were radicalised into a more Islamist institution and they began to turn nasty....
 
I think people have cared about that issue, it's just now it's so out of control they are becoming more vocal.

What is clear is the governments of leading arab countries don't care. The saudis for example would have the power to end it tomorrow if they wanted

But it benefits them for a number of reasons....
exactly right.... Isn't interesting that the handful of Arab countries that DO pretend to care
a) don't send any aid and
b) spend most of their energy making "death to Israel" statements to the media.....
 
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exactly right.... Isn't interesting that the handful of Arab countries that DO pretend to care
a) don't send any aid and
b) spend most of their energy making "death to Israel" statements to the media.....
Glanced at headlines this week. Didn't the Arab League come out with a statement this week? Words, but they're out there now. People conveniently overlook that no country wants to take Palestinians because of the issues the group causes. Kuwait knows it as do Jordan and Egypt. The first parliamentarian of Palestinian descent in Australia made a speech how his family were kicked out of Kuwait, why was that? They back Saddam.

New York Times this week correcting their articles and images that children shown with starvation are in fact ill with other diseases. Indeed starvation is happening but Hamas control the food and information. It's The Battle of Berlin all over again. Food and materials for the soldiers and the civilians can get stuffed. I saw something this week about starvation deaths in Yemen and Sudan being massively high, which no one seems to march about. It's an inherent hate of Israel which is a whole issue on its own. Remember the relative calm over the past 15 years? Occasional flare ups but you take that in a heartbeat compared to now.
 
Glanced at headlines this week. Didn't the Arab League come out with a statement this week? Words, but they're out there now. People conveniently overlook that no country wants to take Palestinians
Other countries shouldnt be forced to take them though. After all, it's where they live.

But the arab states could pressure/take action that could end the war/violence..but

A-It keeps their populations distracted
B- If the palestinians get their freedom, maybe their poluation will want it too?
 
Other countries shouldnt be forced to take them though. After all, it's where they live.

But the arab states could pressure/take action that could end the war/violence..but

A-It keeps their populations distracted
B- If the palestinians get their freedom, maybe their poluation will want it too?
Sure I agree, but why did Turkey take in hundreds of thousands of Syrians and not one Palestinian?
 
Well the first answer would be logistics?
have a read... Iw as a bit facetious about not take ANY refugees, but the story is a lot more complex.... these poor people are being treated like doghsit from both sides.... its a political game and the protesters around the world aren't helping ANYONE but their own social media flex.... :(

 
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@Monoethnic Social Club you know anything about chadra in Lebanon? Greek orthodox population
Not much to be honest mate... There are many Greek Orthodox Lebanese but that just means their churches are linked to the Patriarchy in Constantinople and NOT to other Orthodox or Coptic churches... more an admin thing than an ethnicity thing.

Its a bit misleading, but 99% of "Greek Orthodox" in the middle east aren't ethnically Greek... Its sort of like saying Argentinians are Roman Catholic if that makes sense?
 
have a read... Iw as a bit facetious about not take ANY refugees, but the story is a lot more complex.... these poor people are being treated like doghsit from both sides.... its a political game and the protesters around the world aren't helping ANYONE but their own social media flex.... :(

Quick, get your selfie with the Palestine flag...I'm a world hero.
 
Not much to be honest mate... There are many Greek Orthodox Lebanese but that just means their churches are linked to the Patriarchy in Constantinople and NOT to other Orthodox or Coptic churches... more an admin thing than an ethnicity thing.

Its a bit misleading, but 99% of "Greek Orthodox" in the middle east aren't ethnically Greek... Its sort of like saying Argentinians are Roman Catholic if that makes sense?
Ah ok cheers mate
 
From The Atlantic

Hamas Wants Gaza to Starve
www.theatlantic.com | by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib

This week, the world seems to be finally paying attention to the magnitude of the suffering in Gaza. The futile policies pursued by the Israeli government—prodded by the far-right cabinet ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir—have reduced the supply of humanitarian aid, food, and supplies in Gaza. Israel has unnecessarily reengineered the distribution of aid, failing to achieve its goal of separating the civilian population from Hamas while further constricting its supply. And for these decisions, it has attracted the justified condemnation of the international community.

Despite the surge of hundreds of trucks into Gaza over the past four days, very few supplies have made it into warehouses to be distributed to the population. Aid shipments are being seized by a combination of desperate civilians, lawless gangs, clan-affiliated thugs, and merchants of death. Chaos and apocalyptic scenery are the norm, not the exception. There is no denying the reality of the widespread malnutrition and hunger in the Gaza Strip.

In recent days, I’ve spoken with dozens of Gazans who are furious about what is unfolding around them. They are angry, one told me, at the “hordes of selfish people who are attacking aid convoys to steal and collect aid in a horrific manner without caring for Gazans who chose not to participate in these humiliating and demeaning displays of inhumanity, no matter the level of hunger.” But their anger is directed primarily at Hamas, which they hold responsible for putting the people of Gaza in this position, and for its continued refusal to end the war that it started. “Hitler fought in his bunker until he killed himself in World War II in the Battle of Berlin,” another person said, complaining that Hamas is hunkered down in its tunnels, willing to see Gaza destroyed to the very last child.

Hamas actually wants a famine in Gaza. Producing mass death from hunger is the group’s final play, its last hope for ending the war in a way that advances its goals. Hamas has benefited from Israel’s decision to use food as a lever against the terror group, because the catastrophic conditions for civilians have generated an international outcry, which is worsening Israel’s global standing and forcing it to reverse course.

Online supporters of the terror group have consistently attacked any efforts to alleviate the crisis. In posts and videos, they have dismissed efforts to send in food by convoys of trucks from Egypt and Jordan, pointing to the chaotic scenes as desperate Gazans scramble for aid. They have likewise attacked the airdrops that are now under way and called for them to be stopped immediately.

Hamas’s evident desire to extend and deepen the crisis of hunger helps explain the recent breakdown of cease-fire negotiations, even as Gazans are needlessly dying. The group’s intransigence led both Israel and Trump’s envoy, Steve Witkoff, to walk away from the talks. If the hunger crisis and humanitarian issues are addressed, Hamas can no longer use the suffering of Gazans to generate an international outcry or use the resultant leverage to end the war on its own terms.

But the two-state-solution conference convened by France and Saudi Arabia at the United Nations shows the way forward. In a remarkable statement, endorsed by the European Union and the Arab League, the participants condemned the October 7 attacks and the taking of hostages, and declared that “Hamas must end its rule in Gaza and hand over its weapons to the Palestinian Authority.” The conference envisions the end of hostilities, the establishment of an international mission in Gaza, and the ultimate return of the Palestinian Authority to govern the Strip.

Many Arab states have been reluctant to call out Hamas publicly, even though they do so privately on a regular basis, for fear of upsetting their own populations. But now they have recognized the importance of openly and transparently calling for Hamas to give up control of Gaza and disarm. Both Israel and the international community should capitalize on this shift, to isolate the terrorist organization and give hope for a better trajectory for Gaza’s future.

If Hamas believes that the suffering of Gazans bolsters its cause, Israeli decision makers should take that to heart. They should abandon their misguided and inhumane policies and cease their efforts to pressure the population as a means of pressuring the terror group. The best way to undermine Hamas’s position is to instead flood Gaza with food, and to alleviate the suffering of its people.


Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib is the head of Realign For Palestine, a project of the Atlantic Council, where he is a resident senior fellow. He is a Gaza native and a political analyst who writes extensively on strategic affairs in the Middle East.
 
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