Ethnic ties in the modern Aussie football landscape

[RIMB]

From the Australia Cup thread.

It's never weak when clubs like this meet each other.

Well done Adelaide Croatia.

4 Croatian Clubs in the Final 32 this year

I am aware that I may be walking blindly into a minefield here but please accept that I am working to understand and overcome my own football prejudices. I hope I have earned the right to ask.

Is it offensive to anyone if I say I prefer to look on it as:
4 Australian Clubs with strong Croatian history, heritage, pride, colours and ties in the Final 32 this year ?

That is an honest question from me - the same as it applies to any club linked with another nationality except Nix and Auckland who are actual representatives of NZ in Aussie football.

In my head one is sharing culture while the other is a somewhat exclusive celebration and statement for the specific nationality that any one team 'represents'. From all that I have learned in this forum (and its previous iterations) I understand and accept that historically there was a genuine need for it to be a statement of pride and identity in a hostile and belittling landscape.

Is it still and is that how you (anyone with ties to an ethnic club) want it to be? Like "This is who we are and it is about us not you", "This is who we are and we don't give a stuff what the rest of you think about that", or a stronger "This is who we are and I am happy to ram that up your nose".

I am asking you as individuals not as representatives of your clubs or communities as such.

Added non-aleague Round of 32 Clubs:
Canberra Croatia – Croatian
APIA Leichhardt Tigers – Italian
Northern Tigers – No historical ethnicity
SD Raiders – No historical ethnicity
Sydney United – Croatian
Cooks Hill United – English/Irish? No historical ethnicity?
Weston Bears – English/Newcastle?
Darwin Olympic – Greek
Brisbane City – Italian
Gold Coast Knights – Croatian
Olympic FC – Greek
Peninsula Power – Hackers
Adelaide Croatia Raiders – Croatian
North Eastern MetroStars – Italian
South Hobart – Italian
Avondale FC – Italian
Heidelberg United – Greek
Nunawading City – Broad multicultural
South Melbourne – Greek
Olympic Kingsway – Greek
Stirling Macedonia - Macedonian

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

From the Australia Cup thread.



I am aware that I may be walking blindly into a minefield here but please accept that I am working to understand and overcome my own football prejudices. I hope I have earned the right to ask.

Is it offensive to anyone if I say I prefer to look on it as:
4 Australian Clubs with strong Croatian history, heritage, pride, colours and ties in the Final 32 this year ?

That is an honest question from me - the same as it applies to any club linked with another nationality except Nix and Auckland who are actual representatives of NZ in Aussie football.

In my head one is sharing culture while the other is a somewhat exclusive celebration and statement for the specific nationality that any one team 'represents'. From all that I have learned in this forum (and its previous iterations) I understand and accept that historically there was a genuine need for it to be a statement of pride and identity in a hostile and belittling landscape.

Is it still and is that how you (anyone with ties to an ethnic club) want it to be? Like "This is who we are and it is about us not you", "This is who we are and we don't give a stuff what the rest of you think about that", or a stronger "This is who we are and I am happy to ram that up your nose".

I am asking you as individuals not as representatives of your clubs or communities as such.

Absolutely you have earned the right to ask the question and it is a fair and honest one..

Im not gonna monopolise the discussion on this one as Id prefer to hear from some of the other posters about their clubs .. perhaps a good starting point for you mate would be to list all 32 2025 Australia Cup clubs AND their affiliations on the first post?

Ill pop in once the "answers" start filtering through ... nice one RIMB.

 

[RIMB]

Absolutely you have earned the right to ask the question and it is a fair and honest one..

Im not gonna monopolise the discussion on this one as Id prefer to hear from some of the other posters about their clubs .. perhaps a good starting point for you mate would be to list all 32 2025 Australia Cup clubs AND their affiliations on the first post?

Ill pop in once the "answers" start filtering through ... nice one RIMB.

Thanks Mono.

I have done what I can with the Round of 32 clubs. I have excluded aleague clubs because, by the very nature and premise of the league, they cannot have ethnic representation as such. I may be wrong...?

We all know there is pride for any of us when our 'community' in whatever form does well - and even more so when our group has a higher representation or more of the bigger picture exposure like in the Australia Cup (statistically punching above your weight). I also know we can thank our modern game on multinational ties and heritage - so I am not surprised to see so many community/ethnic affiliations in clubs across Australia.

I am wondering how much is pride in heritage and community as opposed to pride in country of origin/motherland/fatherland if I have made that distinction clear enough.

To try another way - are we seeing 4 clubs representing Croatia (or Greece or Italy or England) or are we seeing 4 clubs representing the Croatian community in the eyes of the individual?

 

[JS96]

24 Pages

 

[RIMB]

Thinking about it, I may be able to save your bleeding eyes from 23 pages.

For years at NSL games I hated hearing "Cro-Ah-Tzee-Ah" and "Hellas, Hellas" chanted at my Australian football games. I took it to be Croatia v Australia or Greece v Australia in my more youthful ignorance and it bothered me when it was the Aussie football league I was watching. It made me feel like I should be chanting "Aussie, Aussie" back in opposition.

I am now thinking that both, and other similar chants, are 'nothing more' than a proud community within Australia celebrating that pride, heritage and identity and not "I may live here but I am Croatian/Greek/Italian rather than an Aussie".

Am I closer to understanding with that? Supercilious/condescending as it may sound, I could actually appreciate and enjoy the chants with that perspective.

Still interested in hearing from people but I have already decided that I like this perspective and won't listen to you anyway.

 

[BA81]

I am now thinking that both, and other similar chants, are 'nothing more' than a proud community within Australia celebrating that pride, heritage and identity and not "I may live here but I am Croatian/Greek/Italian rather than an Aussie".

My thoughts exactly. That’s not to say there weren’t any individuals whatsoever who fell into the latter camp but even so, so what - it was their right to identify as what they felt strongest in their hearts. Plus it was a different time in general.

Personally I’m just curious as to why you posted this thread on here instead of the ️ section of the forum..

 

[RIMB]

My thoughts exactly. That’s not to say there weren’t any individuals whatsoever who fell into the latter camp but even so, so what - it was their right to identify as what they felt strongest in their hearts. Plus it was a different time in general.

Personally I’m just curious as to why you posted this thread on here instead of the ️ section of the forum..

It made me think when I was reading the Australia Cup thread and I didn't want to derail that.

I pondered where to stick it and thought since it is more about perception and individual feelings than actual football itself (as if the two can be separated) I would stick it in Off Topic.

 

[Beretta]

From the Australia Cup thread.



I am aware that I may be walking blindly into a minefield here but please accept that I am working to understand and overcome my own football prejudices. I hope I have earned the right to ask.

Is it offensive to anyone if I say I prefer to look on it as:
4 Australian Clubs with strong Croatian history, heritage, pride, colours and ties in the Final 32 this year ?

That is an honest question from me - the same as it applies to any club linked with another nationality except Nix and Auckland who are actual representatives of NZ in Aussie football.

In my head one is sharing culture while the other is a somewhat exclusive celebration and statement for the specific nationality that any one team 'represents'. From all that I have learned in this forum (and its previous iterations) I understand and accept that historically there was a genuine need for it to be a statement of pride and identity in a hostile and belittling landscape.

Is it still and is that how you (anyone with ties to an ethnic club) want it to be? Like "This is who we are and it is about us not you", "This is who we are and we don't give a stuff what the rest of you think about that", or a stronger "This is who we are and I am happy to ram that up your nose".

I am asking you as individuals not as representatives of your clubs or communities as such.

Added non-aleague Round of 32 Clubs:
Canberra Croatia – Croatian
APIA Leichhardt Tigers – Italian
Northern Tigers – No historical ethnicity
SD Raiders – No historical ethnicity
Sydney United – Croatian
Cooks Hill United – English/Irish? No historical ethnicity?
Weston Bears – English/Newcastle?
Darwin Olympic – Greek
Brisbane City – Italian
Gold Coast Knights – Croatian
Olympic FC – Greek
Peninsula Power – Hackers
Adelaide Croatia Raiders – Croatian
North Eastern MetroStars – Italian
South Hobart – Italian
Avondale FC – Italian
Heidelberg United – Greek
Nunawading City – Broad multicultural
South Melbourne – Greek
Olympic Kingsway – Greek
Stirling Macedonia - Macedonian

I feel the need to respond as you quoted my comment.


I am not offended at all if that’s how you look at it, because you can definitely look at it like Australian Clubs, with Croatian Heritage, as most Australians would.


I on the other hand don’t, I call it Sydney, Canberra, Adelaide Croatia, because that what it was once called, and some clubs have reverted back to their original name. My grandfather, father called it Sydney Croatia, and so do I.


Regarding the culture, celebrating and beating our chests, I cant speak for other clubs, ethnicities or nationalities, but Croatians are very patriotic and proud people. It was probably more noticeable pre 90s, before the break up of the former Yugoslavia. As back then you weren’t allowed to say you were Croatian, so Football in this country was one of many platforms that gave us a chance to show our colours, voice etc. These days, it’s probably not so much in your face, we are one of the communities that are still strong and tight knit. Unlike the Greek and Italian based clubs in Sydney.


That’s not to say we exclude other nationalities to the club. We only have 6-7 Croatians in the First Grade Squad, other Croatian Clubs around the country have even less. There are many people who come and watch that are not of Croatian Heritage. But, you are right, we tend to have that attitude, this is who we are, and we don’t care if you think otherwise.


We are also proud when our club produces players for the Australian National team and Croatian National Team.


Sydney Croatia, We are a Croatian Australian Club, founded by Croatian Immigrants for the Croatian people to embrace and grow the Australian Footballing Culture

 

[Beretta]

i hope that answers your question?!

 

[RIMB]

i hope that answers your question?!

Thanks mate.

I apologise for dragging you in with the quote - not my intention in any way.

As a half-pommy 'skip' who moved around a fair bit growing up I did not have the football upbringing, single 'main local sport' focal point or exposure to much of what I learn that others might who grow up in the one place.

My exposure to other cultures was more respectful and 'normal' by proximity - but far from saintly growing up with the ever present racial jokes, slurs and prejudices that I honestly believe exist in all households the world over.

As a young adult I used to feel strongly that if you live in this Country you should put this Country first in sport - in the age-old Aussie saying "talk religion and politics all you like, but stay away from sport if you don't want trouble". It seemed traitorous for people to live here and call out to their former homeland particularly when playing against Australia or in this case playing in an Aussie National competition.

I have grown out of that view through exposure and being interested enough to ask - and perhaps getting older grants a higher level of wisdom and acceptance if you can accept that it also doesn't automatically grant you any answers. Knowledge and exposure go a long way to understanding at least something of another person's circumstances I find.

I appreciate both the information and your time and effort to write it.

 

[grazorblade]

I have a few questions

1) if your club produced the next big thing in aussie football, say someone who was first choice for barcalona, would you feel more proud if they opted to play for australia or for the country that your club is historically linked to
2) whether your answer is yes or no to question 1, did u ever feel different? What changed?
3) did the exclusion of ethnic clubs by the a league followed by the club identity policy make you feel less aussie?
4) conversely did the success of your club at producing roos or finishing high on the nsl table make u feel more aussie?

Sorry if any are insensitive questions

 

[Beretta]

I have a few questions

1) if your club produced the next big thing in aussie football, say someone who was first choice for barcalona, would you feel more proud if they opted to play for australia or for the country that your club is historically linked to
2) whether your answer is yes or no to question 1, did u ever feel different? What changed?
3) did the exclusion of ethnic clubs by the a league followed by the club identity policy make you feel less aussie?
4) conversely did the success of your club at producing roos or finishing high on the nsl table make u feel more aussie?

Sorry if any are insensitive questions

1) Either or, knowing they came from our club is the 'proud' moment. Whether they choose to play for Australia or Croatia, that's on the player.

3) Didn't make me feel less Aussie, it just divided and excluded us from the old and new. (Us vs Them Mentality) which in my opinion still exists today.

4) No

 

[LFC]

Thanks mate.

I apologise for dragging you in with the quote - not my intention in any way.

As a half-pommy 'skip' who moved around a fair bit growing up I did not have the football upbringing, single 'main local sport' focal point or exposure to much of what I learn that others might who grow up in the one place.

May I say good thread topic that actually is a good approach by you RIMB, yes you have matured haha
Pommy/the conquerers for centuries, same applied here right ? and the white footprint is/was King - like every country needs migration for growth/workers - you know the jobs that the better off won't get their hands dirty for but mock workers to this day.
In saying that ethnics alot have olive skin, eat drink live life differently And many grew up with football as the social thing as you do and became pretty good at it - alot of this offended anglos here.

My exposure to other cultures was more respectful and 'normal' by proximity - but far from saintly growing up with the ever present racial jokes, slurs and prejudices that I honestly believe exist in all households the world over.

Sure it exists world over easy to say but put yourself in our shoes growing up 60/70's going to school, not smith and jones, wog surname, don't eat meat pies brought left overs from home that skips never seen, get called everything under the sun, know you got a group of brave skips waiting to pick on you near on every week outside school when finished, do you let 5/6 bullies just put shit on you 24/7 ? no you fight well I did. Bullying is minimal today but back then you have no one no system backign you up, so then I beat them at school football, played around them, satisfaction plus and no I'm not bitter about my past it MADE me stronger/resilient and I'm thankful of this.

As a young adult I used to feel strongly that if you live in this Country you should put this Country first in sport - in the age-old Aussie saying "talk religion and politics all you like, but stay away from sport if you don't want trouble". It seemed traitorous for people to live here and call out to their former homeland particularly when playing against Australia or in this case playing in an Aussie National competition.

Sure from your anglo perspective not surprised BUT what about us, even though some born here like me ALL my fam is from Italy/Croatia, try dealing with blood through your heart and soul from one land and be proud from where your born as well, we wogs are far more family generally than skips if I can say it that way, for eg we always lol'd back in our days skip parents couldn't wait till their kids moved out asap, where as us wogs opposite, I bled not having my relos around me, they are my soul and to this day at the sametime I'm proud Aussie as well.
We luv our clubs because its the extension of our heritage, we all are proud Aussies but it gets twisted and torn by the early anglos used as a weapon against us, its huge ignorance more than anything else and a crying shame.
Who is anyone to tell you how to behave, where to stand, is there a law you can't support your family original homeland for thats the roots where you came to be.
You know being a proud Aussie going to the many early Roo games at the SCG etc, I used to look and wonder why anglos we're so reluctant to sing out our anthem pre games, they were embarrassed to show emotion, I luved singing it out my ethnic blood coming out of me with tears running down my face, I do the same with gutso as well hearing the Italian anthem, don't you luv how ethnics bellow out their anthem/cry with joy and hope, I luv it ! thats what anglos lacked till of late, they are finally singing our anthem but its needs to be more.
Shame its not a great anthem mind you as much as like singing it with pride.

I have grown out of that view through exposure and being interested enough to ask - and perhaps getting older grants a higher level of wisdom and acceptance if you can accept that it also doesn't automatically grant you any answers. Knowledge and exposure go a long way to understanding at least something of another person's circumstances I find.

I appreciate both the information and your time and effort to write it.

As mentioned a good topic - shame the early days went as they did but thats humans.
You live and learn eh.
Beretta and others maybe see things bit differently to me but I know we all have some connections hence the tribalism us keeping up the fight.
Can't speak for him but I'm aussie and I'm also a very proud born here of ethnic background that is my heart and soul combined into 1.
I'll bleed for us and chant for Italy/Croatia if that makes sense.
The ol Clubs are a extention of our heritage, they are aussie but we enjoy singing out its linage, how and from where it came to be, your families go back to those countries be it Cro/Italian/Greek/Serb etcetc its wonderful having this through your blood.
From the Nth Italian/Cro/Serb perspective those late 40's/50's migrants came from worn torn areas that Hitler came through and kicked them out like my parents, ended up coming here with Nothing, treated like crap, thats what makes you hence the pride of your past.
Something people don't get unless your own fam went through that.
We just luv our game, our Clubs no diff to anglos luving their own but we got "pigeon holed" if thats a good description, ignorance is bliss.

 

[RIMB]

May I say good thread topic that actually is a good approach by you RIMB, yes you have matured haha
Pommy/the conquerers for centuries, same applied here right ? and the white footprint is/was King - like every country needs migration for growth/workers - you know the jobs that the better off won't get their hands dirty for but mock workers to this day.
In saying that ethnics alot have olive skin, eat drink live life differently And many grew up with football as the social thing as you do and became pretty good at it - alot of this offended anglos here.

Sure it exists world over easy to say but put yourself in our shoes growing up 60/70's going to school, not smith and jones, wog surname, don't eat meat pies brought left overs from home that skips never seen, get called everything under the sun, know you got a group of brave skips waiting to pick on near on every week outside school when finished, do you let 5/6 bullies just put shit on you 24/7 ? no you fight well I did. Bullying is minimal today but back then you have no one no system backign you up, so then I beat them at school football, played around them, satisfaction plus and no I'm not bitter about my past it MADE me stronger/resilient and I'm thankful of this.

Sure from your anglo perspective not surprised BUT what about us, even though some born here like me ALL my fam is from Italy/Croatia, try dealing with blood through your heart and soul from one land and be proud from where your born as well, we wogs are far more family generally than skips if I can say it that way, for eg we always lol'd back in our days skip parents couldn't wait till their kids moved out asap, where as us wogs opposite, I bled not having my relos around me, they are my soul and to this day at the sametime I'm proud Aussie as well.
We luv our clubs because its the extension of our heritage, we all are proud Aussies but it gets twisted and torn by the early anglos used as a weapon against us, its huge ignorance more than anything else and a crying shame.
Who is anyone to tell you how to behave, where to stand, is there a law you can't support your family original homeland for thats the roots where you came to be.
You know being a proud Aussie going to the many early Roo games at the SCG etc, I used to look and wonder why anglos we're so reluctant to sing out our anthem pre games, they were embarrassed to show emotion, I luved singing it out my ethnic blood coming out of me with tears running down my face, I do the same with gutso as well hearing the Italian anthem, don't you luv how ethnics bellow out their anthem/cry with joy and hope, I luv it ! thats what anglos lacked till of late, they are finally singing our anthem but its needs to be more.
Shame its not a great anthem mind you as much as like singing it with pride.

As mentioned a good topic - shame the early days went as they did but thats humans.
You live and learn eh.
Beretta and others maybe see things bit differently to me but I know we all have some connections hence the tribalism us keeping up the fight.
Can't speak for him but I'm aussie and I'm also a very proud born here of ethnic background that is my heart and soul combined into 1.
I'll bleed for us and chant for Italy/Croatia if that makes sense.
The ol Clubs are a extention of our heritage, they are aussie but we enjoy singing out its linage, how and from where it came to be, your families go back to those countries be it Cro/Italian/Greek/Serb etcetc its wonderful having this through your blood.
From the Nth Italian/Cro/Serb perspective those late 40's/50's migrants came from worn torn areas that Hitler came through and kicked them out like my parents, ended up coming here with Nothing, treated like crap, thats what makes you hence the pride of your past.
Something people don't get unless your own fam went through that.
We just luv our game, our Clubs no diff to anglos luving their own but we got "pigeon holed" if thats a good description, ignorance is bliss.

Beautiful post thanks LFC.

 

[LFC]

I have a few questions

1) if your club produced the next big thing in aussie football, say someone who was first choice for barcalona, would you feel more proud if they opted to play for australia or for the country that your club is historically linked to

Who am I to judge this brilliant player where they end up NT wise, without knowing reasons/backgrounds people make haste calls about this like Volpato for eg or the Cro kids of late being plucked sometime back, there's no doubt be great they all bleed green and gold but its not that simple considering our system/lack of everything here re spaces in Clubs getting somewhere - its a difficult situation now with all the money that is available and competiton. Put it this way IF I was in Volpato's parents situation, I'd be backing whatever is best for my kids future and their feelings plain and simple for thats all that matters not what other people think.

2) whether your answer is yes or no to question 1, did u ever feel different? What changed?
3) did the exclusion of ethnic clubs by the a league followed by the club identity policy make you feel less aussie?

I said in my RIMB response ignorance is bliss, Lowy didn't just exclude the ethnic clubs he excluded the whole of football beneath, people need to open their eyes, in hindsight he was a very selfish richman and only cared about himself and money.
He put football up in lights for his own product and turned out the lights underneath, look where we are for all to see but many don't see it.
The club identity is a by product of his model to sell theirs - no you didn't feel less aussie whatsoever but disgusted by the petty argument but we've gone through just as wrong for decades.

4) conversely did the success of your club at producing roos or finishing high on the nsl table make u feel more aussie?

Like Beretta NO but strange question, we are proud as punch aussies from my perspective, how many brilliant Roos have ethnic background, infact been the core for how long Graz in the past, luv it so so much proud as no matter the background it just proves/d the families done good here and playing for the Roos was/is the zenith of their passion driven by heritage.

Sorry if any are insensitive questions

No worries

 

[grazorblade]

yeah sorry if the question is strange I can explain the motivation for it

when I found out I had a permanent job in England and would eventually be an English citizen I started looking into the incredible history of achievements of England - from the literature, to the glorious revolution and how they got the supremecy of the parliament without violence, william wilberforce and the evangelicals/quakers anti slavery movement, the incredible music history, the scientists they produced, inventing my fave sports etc etc.
Anyway I was prepping myself to become English since I'm gonna be here forever (I'll always be aussie too of course!). When I found out about the visa and also the degree of anger at immigrants for "not assimilating" the constant unwelcoming messages etc, despite everyone I knew personally being nice and friendly I noticed that I started feeling "more aussie" playing aussie music in the house a lot, getting more into aussie sports, aussie tv shows, making aussie food, aussie holidays etc. Obviously its not exactly the world's biggest injustice, but forking up 30k pounds for example isn't nothing either!

I read some research on what the literature calls "heavy handed assimilation policies" and it seems the evidence shows they backfire. Not already are they ethically a bit dodgy, causing distress to migrant communities, but they are apparently self defeating on their stated goals because they cause less patriotism to their new country and more patriotism to the country they came from. I was like "huh, that seems to be what's happening to me". I guess patriotism is falling in love and if you try and force someone to fall in love

Anyway, I was wondering if something similar happened with the club identity policy and the beginning of the a league - can't think of a better example of a "heavy handed assimilation policy" unless you go back further when people were willing to do much more dodgy things. By contrast, the research shows that building aussie football with your migrant community would actually foster a sense of patriotism, contrary to many people's intuitions.

We have always had people play for other countries (viera, johnson, d'arrigo, simunic, seric, didiluca) but it seems harder to get dual nationalists interested these days. There are as many in doubt or defected right now as there have been in that list from our entire history! By contrast Aloisi was willing to cost his career for his shirt and you never hear anyone care about the shirt more than poppa. Still it could be other factors like generational and cultural changes in australia. Still, it made me wonder if the club identity policy and the exclusion of migrant clubs play a role. After all, if you tell people that these clubs aren't welcome and aren't aussie, some are going to internalize that message

 

[grazorblade]

I luv it ! thats what anglos lacked till of late, they are finally singing our anthem but its needs to be more.
Shame its not a great anthem mind you as much as like singing it with pride.

Probably a lot of fellow anglos find it lame, but watching the roos even at home I stand up and bellow the anthem pre socceroos matches

 

[RIMB]

Probably a lot of fellow anglos find it lame, but watching the rooster even at home I stand up and bellow the anthem pre socceroos matches

I have always had goosebumps and bursting pride when I get to sing the national anthem at events.

Crazy that so many deny themselves that feeling.

As far as your post - I am very concerned about you "watching the rooster at home" and do not wish to hear anymore about you in that regard

I assume that is your autocorrect messing up Roos??

 

[grazorblade]

I have always had goosebumps and bursting pride when I get to sing the national anthem at events.

Crazy that so many deny themselves that feeling.

As far as your post - I am very concerned about you "watching the rooster at home" and do not wish to hear anymore about you in that regard

I assume that is your autocorrect messing up Roos??

freaking autocorrect

 

[LFC]

yeah sorry if the question is strange I can explain the motivation for it

not strange from left field - and may I say my outlook in all this discussion may not apply or agree with others

when I found out I had a permanent job in England and would eventually be an English citizen I started looking into the incredible history of achievements of England - from the literature, to the glorious revolution and how they got the supremecy of the parliament without violence, william wilberforce and the evangelicals/quakers anti slavery movement, the incredible music history, the scientists they produced, inventing my fave sports etc etc.
Anyway I was prepping myself to become English since I'm gonna be here forever (I'll always be aussie too of course!). When I found out about the visa and also the degree of anger at immigrants for "not assimilating" the constant unwelcoming messages etc, despite everyone I knew personally being nice and friendly I noticed that I started feeling "more aussie" playing aussie music in the house a lot, getting more into aussie sports, aussie tv shows, making aussie food, aussie holidays etc. Obviously its not exactly the world's biggest injustice, but forking up 30k pounds for example isn't nothing either!

30K becoming a Pom am I reading that right ?

I read some research on what the literature calls "heavy handed assimilation policies" and it seems the evidence shows they backfire. Not already are they ethically a bit dodgy, causing distress to migrant communities, but they are apparently self defeating on their stated goals because they cause less patriotism to their new country and more patriotism to the country they came from. I was like "huh, that seems to be what's happening to me". I guess patriotism is falling in love and if you try and force someone to fall in love

Interesting take from whats doing there, my observations here amongst fellow ethnic fam and others I learnt determination from them to be proud Aussies after all the abuse/racism/put downs/made out as if you were 2nd rate, ethnics put their heads down and I'll prove them anglos wrong, I'll work hard/play hard and I'm a proud aussie I am patriotic and imo the Greeks/Italians/Cros did plus other nationalities. We luv Oz, our kids/2nd gen on are Oz but they also luv their Nonnos/Nonnas/Dads/Mums homeland.

Anyway, I was wondering if something similar happened with the club identity policy and the beginning of the a league - can't think of a better example of a "heavy handed assimilation policy" unless you go back further when people were willing to do much more dodgy things. By contrast, the research shows that building aussie football with your migrant community would actually foster a sense of patriotism, contrary to many people's intuitions.

Yep we just moved on - copped it for you couldn't do anything about it, much like many other ethnic bashing way back.

We have always had people play for other countries (viera, johnson, d'arrigo, simunic, seric, didiluca) but it seems harder to get dual nationalists interested these days. There are as many in doubt or defected right now as there have been in that list from our entire history! By contrast Aloisi was willing to cost his career for his shirt and you never hear anyone care about the shirt more than poppa. Still it could be other factors like generational and cultural changes in australia. Still, it made me wonder if the club identity policy and the exclusion of migrant clubs play a role. After all, if you tell people that these clubs aren't welcome and aren't aussie, some are going to internalize that message

Obviously alot has changed since those earlier days - I mentioned I wouldn't hold back any of my kids IF they made it and played for Italy or Croatia let alone my wife's Portugal, one reason why ? our system/our whole crappy mess/lack of opportunity/the politcs, well politics is world over but worse because lack of choice/where else can you go/13 Pro Clubs for the heck squad of 20, thats a paltry 260 players ?! and the shit you got to go through.
I have 2 boys SAP/YL/NPL, putting aside mine, so so many I've seen are potential AL standard - they get sick of the bank ups at trials/the lack of spots aspiring getting to the top here, how many go to private academies, rip off but the kid has the potential, then he gets to europe and you wonder why as a dual international sits on the fence ? what do you owe to anyone thinking big picture making a buck for just 10yrs let alone who to align for NT, sure I'd tell him son you got no hope for the Azzurri put on the green and gold if when your asked, his call mind you his call.
Hope this kind of makes sense.