The Australian Championship Thread

[grazorblade]

Ive been grappling with the idea of a backup plan should it go pear shaped...
IN TRUTH I have less than little faith in the FA as its stands, even if ultimately its down to us to engage and to prove the project a success..

Like others here before me, the idea of a combined Super Southern NPL is something that could be a good option to continue some momentum for the clubs and as a pressure tactic on the FA.
My suggestions are open to alteration based on clubs ability to participate but as an initial idea from interest for championship then follwoijg would be most logical.

7 teams NSW (Marconi, Olympic, Utd 58, Wollongong, Spirit, Apia, Rockdale)

5 teams Vic (South, Preston, Avondale, Bergers, Knights)

After initial trial then expansion on regular basis to include SA 2 teams!
For 14 teams.

26 rounds home and away building on local and interstate rivalries of traditional clubs.

yeah include 1 state at a time wouldn't be a bad idea. Have any clubs floated this plan and would there be opposition?

 

[Glenardo]

Ive been grappling with the idea of a backup plan should it go pear shaped...
IN TRUTH I have less than little faith in the FA as its stands, even if ultimately its down to us to engage and to prove the project a success..

Like others here before me, the idea of a combined Super Southern NPL is something that could be a good option to continue some momentum for the clubs and as a pressure tactic on the FA.
My suggestions are open to alteration based on clubs ability to participate but as an initial idea from interest for championship then follwoijg would be most logical.

7 teams NSW (Marconi, Olympic, Utd 58, Wollongong, Spirit, Apia, Rockdale)

5 teams Vic (South, Preston, Avondale, Bergers, Knights)

After initial trial then expansion on regular basis to include SA 2 teams!
For 14 teams.

26 rounds home and away building on local and interstate rivalries of traditional clubs.

Obviously the idea has my support, I’ve been one of those banging on about it. Even if it’s still semi pro etc etc condensing the 2 leagues would still make for a more competitive league which would generate more interest and would be a higher level etc right now interest, resources, talent etc are essentially just diluted across two “conferences”. I know it might not be politically correct to show so much “favouritism” to NSW and Vic, and I value the clubs in every state, but it’s the actual reality of the situation atm if we’re being honest/realistic

Let’s not forget for quite some time the qld npl had teams regularly travelling longer distances than these would be. There were teams from cairns, townsville etc which are actually quite a bit further from Brisbane/gold coast than the distance between Sydney - Melbourne.

Very minor nitpick on my part, and I know it’s just being thrown out as a “for instance” but I dont know if spirit would be that 7th club from nsw. this year was a bit of an anomaly, no one was expecting them to challenge, most of their time has been spent in npl 2 and their ground is basically a park. On long term form you’d have to say Blacktown would probably be that 7th club if you were adamant you wanted 7

 

[Hellenic_blue&white]

yeah include 1 state at a time wouldn't be a bad idea. Have any clubs floated this plan and would there be opposition?

Absolute silence and nothing i can see about a plan b...with no light from FA, supporters are rightly worried and expressing it, the consept wherever ive discussed it has really strong support from supporters throughout. The only opposition i can see would come possibly from the federaions themselves as the current NPL's would be weakened.
The most viable concern is how many of these clubs can economically sustain a system of travel etc but that is part of the initial idea that also would have to be addressed but it allows the most limited need for any major spending.
Its a conversation that should be had as we are end of July and no infom in sight regarding the comp beyond this year. No mention of the outcome of the new

 

[Hellenic_blue&white]

Obviously the idea has my support, I’ve been one of those banging on about it. Even if it’s still semi pro etc etc condensing the 2 leagues would still make for a more competitive league which would generate more interest and would be a higher level etc right now interest, resources, talent etc are essentially just diluted across two “conferences”. I know it might not be politically correct to show so much “favouritism” to NSW and Vic, and I value the clubs in every state, but it’s the actual reality of the situation atm if we’re being honest/realistic

Let’s not forget for quite some time the qld npl had teams regularly travelling longer distances than these would be. There were teams from cairns, townsville etc which are actually quite a bit further from Brisbane/gold coast than the distance between Sydney - Melbourne.

Exactly that!

Very minor nitpick on my part, and I know it’s just being thrown out as a “for instance” but I dont know if spirit would be that 7th club from nsw. this year was a bit of an anomaly, no one was expecting them to challenge, most of their time has been spent in npl 2 and their ground is basically a park. On long term form you’d have to say Blacktown would probably be that 7th club if you were adamant you wanted 7

I would defer this to the NSW experts to be honest, I think my interest was more (given my limited knowledfe of NPLNSW) That a non traditionally ethnic aligned yet loosely affiliated old NSL club with some history (similar to Wollongong) is a good option if that is to be Blacktown then so be it, similarly if its to be a team from Vic (like George Cross which has interest in Championship also) or a team from Canberra without adding to the budgets. Given the larger market north and to get to 12 id be open to any team that fits the criteria set.

 

[patjennings]

I think by limiting to 2 states it becomes ho hum, why bother. Qld and SA must be included and hopefully, but probably not viable, would be a TAS and Canberra team. WA will always be problematic but of the whole thing takes hold they can be added later.

We need to bother - which means it needs to be more than 2 states. All a 2 state competition will do is slow an already slow process and keep others out for even more decades

 

[Glenardo]

I think by limiting to 2 states it becomes ho hum, why bother. Qld and SA must be included and hopefully, but probably not viable, would be a TAS and Canberra team. WA will always be problematic but of the whole thing takes hold they can be added later.

I agree it would be better to have more states, and I don’t think it should be “restricted” per se. Just to say that if that if clubs from 2 states is the best we can do for now, that would still be better than the status quo and the whole thing shouldn’t be put in the bin, and we just stay with state leagues forever if that’s the only thing that is viable for the time being. It’s something to build on.

Respectful disagreement that it’s not worth bothering at all if that’s the case. As I’ve said, why does the perfect always have to be the enemy of the good. If there’s clubs who are keen and willing to improve the level of the second tier of the game on and off the field, why must they be held back because not everyone else can do it too in some sort of egalitarian, tall poppy situation. Qld and SA already have teams representing them at the national level in the a league, it’s not like they’re excluded from soccer. This isn’t about that, this is about giving existing clubs who want more, and believe they can/do more than what they are now the opportunity to pool their resources and do that. Apologies in advance for the rant

 

[patjennings]

I agree it would be better to have more states, and I don’t think it should be “restricted” per se. Just to say that if that if clubs from 2 states is the best we can do for now, that would still be better than the status quo and the whole thing shouldn’t be put in the bin, and we just stay with state leagues forever if that’s the only thing that is viable for the time being. It’s something to build on.

Respectful disagreement that it’s not worth bothering at all if that’s the case. As I’ve said, why does the perfect always have to be the enemy of the good. If there’s clubs who are keen and willing to improve the level of the second tier of the game on and off the field, why must they be held back because not everyone else can do it too in some sort of egalitarian, tall poppy situation

If I was a broadcaster looking to appeal to the Australian population I would not try to cater for a few suburbs in 2 cities that total only 40% of the Australian population. You are essentially saying this is a suburban comp pretending to be a national competition, By targeting two cities you are turning off the interest from the rest of the country and telling them that you have no aspiration to be truly national. i.e. you are setting yourself up for failure.

Ideally there will eventually be teams from all states and territories in multiple tiers. That will never happen when you limit the vision. The vision needs to be wider otherwise it is self-defeating. Four states is not perfect - but it shows you are serious. I'm not trying to hold anyone back - quite the opposite - I want then to aspire for more.

 

[Glenardo]

If I was a broadcaster looking to appeal to the Australian population I would not try to cater for a few suburbs in 2 cities that total only 40% of the Australian population. You are essentially saying this is a suburban comp pretending to be a national competition, By targeting two cities you are turning off the interest from the rest of the country and telling them that you have no aspiration to be truly national. i.e. you are setting yourself up for failure.

Ideally there will eventually be teams from all states and territories in multiple tiers. That will never happen when you limit the vision. The vision needs to be wider otherwise it is self-defeating. Four states is not perfect - but it shows you are serious. I'm not trying to hold anyone back - quite the opposite - I want then to aspire for more.

And fair enough, all are entitled to their opinion, we both want better for the second tier than what we have now, at the risk of going around in circles perhaps we’ll have to agree to disagree about the finer details

 

[Hellenic_blue&white]

I think by limiting to 2 states it becomes ho hum, why bother. Qld and SA must be included and hopefully, but probably not viable, would be a TAS and Canberra team. WA will always be problematic but of the whole thing takes hold they can be added later.

We need to bother - which means it needs to be more than 2 states. All a 2 state competition will do is slow an already slow process and keep others out for even more decades

Your solely hitching your wagon to the secretive and unreliable (as has been proven) FA which hasnt bode well to date and its thebthough of the possible failure we are all thinking/worrying about which we are trying to make sure if it does happen we can recover from.
I fully understand the apprehension however, and i also want nothing less than a full h&a, nation wide AU championship as the flagship comp, and have never veered from that, but the back up plan is something that needs to be more viable given the lack of faith in the FA and in clubs perhaps that have been able to show they are willing/able to meet the needs of this system...

*On your point about the back up plan meaning we take steps backwards (perhaps yes but we already have not getting a h&a but a cup and no insigjt into that changing)......and in truth, there will be zero recovery if championship doesnt work for whatever reason, in its current format and the clubs wont ever be given a second chance again, so a back up plan based in reality remains a must atleast for momentum!

The semantics will need to be debated but for simplicity my back up plan is something along these lines:
First season or 2 is the Southern NPL, as floated even if it means less teams.
After in 1 or 2 years you include SA, 2 teams preferably.
After that its Queensland, if viable 2 teams also. Canberra and Tasmania can join that season also having been given time to choose a team or create one if need be. That makes it a Super SouthEastern NPL..

WA remains the question mark and will eventually need to be addressed regarding viability.

Otherwise the option is to alternatively drop teams like WU, and expand the aleague with the foundation teams and come what may!

 

[Hellenic_blue&white]

And fair enough, all are entitled to their opinion, we both want better for the second tier than what we have now, at the risk of going around in circles perhaps we’ll have to agree to disagree about the finer details

There are no disagreements we all seem to want the same thing, its a matter of the best possible 'vessel" to reach the pormised land...
I think there are merrits to both opinions, and any system needs to address all that otherwise it will certainly fail.. i also (like you) am of the idea that the foundations need to start somewhere (just 2 if needs be originally sew NRL AFL they werent different and it worked) with an expansion road map in place to get to the final product quickly and effectively though..
If stakeholders have the road map then they have time to prepare and focus on the end goal whochnis what most want.
A truly national system off bad is the ideal but the inhibitors are many with WA and NT!

 

[Glenardo]

There are no disagreements we all seem to want the same thing, its a matter of the best possible 'vessel" to reach the pormised land...
I think there are merrits to both opinions, and any system needs to address all that otherwise it will certainly fail.. i also (like you) am of the idea that the foundations need to start somewhere (just 2 if needs be originally sew NRL AFL they werent different and it worked) with an expansion road map in place to get to the final product quickly and effectively though..
If stakeholders have the road map then they have time to prepare and focus on the end goal whochnis what most want.
A truly national system off bad is the ideal but the inhibitors are many with WA and NT!

Correct, otherwise I guess the nrl should just fold and go back to being state based comps because there’s no Adelaide or Perth team etc

 

[patjennings]

Correct, otherwise I guess the nrl should just fold and go back to being state based comps because there’s no Adelaide or Perth team etc

Not really the NRL is expanding in Perth and PNG, they already have a NZ team. Their footprint being covered by clubs representing states and countries is greater than 40 million people.

By adding South East Queensland and South Australia while articulating the need for further growth you can turn what is essentially a glorified two city NPL into a competition that covers over 75% of the Australian population. i.e. close to 21 million people. A purely Sydney Melbourne comp caters for less than 40% of the population - slightly over 10 million people and gives the impression to the rest of the country that they needn't bother as the Sydney and Melbourne clubs won't want extra expense..

The full plan should be all states and territories, The back up plan should be the 4 state plan

 

[Glenardo]

Not really the NRL is expanding in Perth and PNG, they already have a NZ team. Their footprint being covered by clubs representing states and countries is greater than 40 million people.

By adding South East Queensland and South Australia while articulating the need for further growth you can turn what is essentially a glorified two city NPL into a competition that covers over 75% of the Australian population. i.e. close to 21 million people. A purely Sydney Melbourne comp caters for less than 40% of the population - slightly over 10 million people and gives the impression to the rest of the country that they needn't bother as the Sydney and Melbourne clubs won't want extra expense..

The full plan should be all states and territories, The back up plan should be the 4 state plan

Regardless, we were talking about contingency plans if the ideal championship model doesn’t come to pass. Our difference of opinion is that if all else fails, the ideal model doesn’t eventuate, or the second best model, we should just stick with the state leagues, with that I respectfully beg to differ.

Again, may have to agree to disagree on this one

 

[HappyGuus]

Adelaide and Brisbane inclusion is a no-brainer. Minimal cost difference and maximum vibes.

The biggest financial killers are easily Perth, then Canberra and Newcastle (unless teams are happy to bus from Sydney to save some pennies).

 

[patjennings]

Adelaide and Brisbane inclusion is a no-brainer. Minimal cost difference and maximum vibes.

The biggest financial killers are easily Perth, then Canberra and Newcastle (unless teams are happy to bus from Sydney to save some pennies).

2 hours 40min to GIO Stadium from Edensor Park. Probably pretty similar travel time by plane given travel to the airport, going through departure, the flight and travelling from the airport. Newcastle about 30 mins closer.

 

[HappyGuus]

2 hours 40min to GIO Stadium from Edensor Park. Probably pretty similar travel time by plane given travel to the airport, going through departure, the flight and travelling from the airport. Newcastle about 30 mins closer.

Yeah it would be a waste flying that route. The flights between Canberra and Sydney are probably the most expensive per km, outside of regional flights. Canberra to anywhere is expensive as well, except for maybe Melbourne.

 

[grazorblade]

Adelaide and Brisbane inclusion is a no-brainer. Minimal cost difference and maximum vibes.

The biggest financial killers are easily Perth, then Canberra and Newcastle (unless teams are happy to bus from Sydney to save some pennies).

Are flights from canberra and newcastle crazy expensive?

 

[HappyGuus]

Are flights from canberra and newcastle crazy expensive?

From memory, it wasn't good. I think the rail might have been a good option on that one. Can you imagine 20 players and staff hopping on a train to a match haha?

 

[Sutherlandbear]

From memory, it wasn't good. I think the rail might have been a good option on that one. Can you imagine 20 players and staff hopping on a train to a match haha?

It wasn't that long ago that all UK teams were doing this.