Saudi's tactics v Australia 🇸🇦

[Decentric]

What some supposed football fans in Aus, who shun Aus football are missing, by overlooking Asian football, is the considerable tactical improvement in Asian teams.

When I read the media in Peru, the Peruvian coach, admitted he was out-coached tactically by Arnold in the sudden death play off for 2022 WC.

The French national who coaches Saudi, Reynard, can be induced by rich football Asian countries to coach the Saudi team. The Bahrain coach is from the Balkans , I think? He also devised a savvy match plan against Aus.

 

[Decentric]

Bos did not see as much of the ball as Razorblade has illustrated but when he did and tried to raid up the left wing the Saudi RB contained him well

1v1 Bos was well-matched by a speedy Saudi RB and maybe a Saudi winger?

 

[Decentric]

Live, I thought O'Neill was quite comfortable on the ball in tight spaces.

With Popa coaching, and selecting AL players, it is showing when games are played in Aus, non- jetlagged AL players are much closer to the standard of Euroroos.

Arnold may have underestimated a few A L domestic players.

 

[LFC]

well that reads to me the divide isn't that great between locals to offshore players barring the exceptions.
Therefore thats not looking promising ahead.

 

[Decentric]

well that reads to me the divide isn't that great between locals to offshore players barring the exceptions.
Therefore thats not looking promising ahead.

I've seen you welcoming new G and G FC posters, LFC.

Good on you!

I don't think Popa rates Scottish football much outside Rangers and Celtic.

I think it is more of a question that AL players do quite well in games in Aus, because they aren't jet-lagged, like Euroroos. The Euroroos are often more jet-lagged than many of the players in the visiting teams.

Also, the Aus coaching system has players better suited to fitting into positions and doing a job, because they are so familiar with the formations and game plans. They are tactically savvy. This wasn't so apparent 12 years ago.

 

[Keeper66]

Hrustic is quite static in his off the ball work.

When Aus has the ball, Hrustic doesn't do much to open passing lanes. Hence , he doesn't get the ball much, particularly against effective, cohesive defences.

The average fan, and even former Socceroos and current pundits, Archie Thompson, and Bruce Djite, the highly accredited and educated at one stage A United Tech Dir, thought Hrustic was very effective on the ball a few times. True, he was. They contended with his good close ball control in the first half, why doesn't the team get the ball to Hrustic more often, because he is so effective on the ball?

Hrustic just doesn't show for the ball enough when teammates are just about to receive it, or have it at their feet. Hrustic doesn't check and shake the opposition markers enough with his low work rate. Aidan H isn't the typical Aus player. Not sure where he was coached in his development?

A player who receives a lot of criticism from fans, who shakes his markers and creates space well by opening passing lanes effectively, or creates dummy runs, is Mitch Duke.

Your point about Villupillay more actively moving off the ball, in our Ball Possession, is excellent. I haven't seen the replay yet, but in all probability, Nishan V dragged his marker out of the the Saudi defensive formation - or - NV was roaming and harder to mark. Saudi likely assumed a Zonal Marking system, not the less favoured Man Marking system. Hence, he opened passing lanes, or created dummy runs - resulting in space created for teammates.

Moreover, Nishan V closed down space more effectively when Aus was in Ball Possession Opposition. Plus he created more body on body duels with the Left Back Saudi marker, or others, when they had the ball, or there were 50/50 contests that he forced.

Re Mitch Duke, while he does move to try to create space and lose his marker, his ability to hold on to the ball is very poor. In most instances he doesn't even attempt to hold and protect the ball. Quite often he tries to head it on or flick it forward without there being a player there to head or flick it on to, thus we immediately lose possession, rather than even looking to play it backwards to a team mate and retain possession.

 

[LFC]

I've seen you welcoming new G and G FC posters, LFC.

Good on you!

I don't think Popa rates Scottish football much outside Rangers and Celtic.

I think it is more of a question that AL players do quite well in games in Aus, because they aren't jet-lagged, like Euroroos. The Euroroos are often more jet-lagged than many of the players in the visiting teams.

Also, the Aus coaching system has players better suited to fitting into positions and doing a job, because they are so familiar with the formations and game plans. They are tactically savvy. This wasn't so apparent 12 years ago.

happy doing my bit especially to newbies, cool.

I don't think I'd consider he doesn't rate SPL outside the usual big 2, you'd think he's looking at like a open book with his team and observations of GA's history.
He has to figure it out despite what we think......

For their ages (euroroos) I don't think jet lag is huge concerns plus don't know IF they travel Biz class ??

Matildas to receive equal travel standards as Socceroos but only for the World Cup

The Matildas will be afforded the same high standards of travel and accommodation regularly enjoyed by the men, but only once every four years.

www.smh.com.au

old link can't find anything recent.

I have travelled just as long flights for years everybody's recovery is different I understand that BUT I think the main challege for most euroroos is climatising to the different pitchs compared to the softer euro ones.
Next is blending in together as mentioned formations/game plans, then the lack of time/drills/getting to know each others play/actions/thoughts.
Most didn't play under Poppa ?? and those that did its immaterial for your not playing a AL game its a NT one against experienced NT gaffas for starters.
I read by some that Renard really did the school work on our fellas out lets pressure Millers side for eg.
I would think Poppa would have done a tactical adjustment sooner no ?
Like if you keep getting ripped one side its pretty obvious, Miller and he played the full game.

In the end its up to the tactically savvy players your right no matter from where, trouble is that one like Irvine for eg who does have the caps armband that my observations is not the leader we need right now.
I thank him for his service but he's not that type of inspirational player we need today.
Trouble is some of the new order are not up to it as yet and inconsistant and we are getting played off the park more than not, just lucky they lack finish not as ordinary as us.
I don't know who is our leader in the middle of the park, I don't recognise one who can lead every single time on the ball.
12yrs ago and today no matter the later savvyness its not showing enough with confidence imo

 

[Decentric]

Re Mitch Duke, while he does move to try to create space and lose his marker, his ability to hold on to the ball is very poor. In most instances he doesn't even attempt to hold and protect the ball. Quite often he tries to head it on or flick it forward without there being a player there to head or flick it on to, thus we immediately lose possession, rather than even looking to play it backwards to a team mate and retain possession.

Fair comment about Duke's weaknesses, Keeper. I agree with you.

Yengi also struggles to maintain possession in tight spaces, but give him space and he is a decent dribbler and ball carrier on the wings.

I was alluding to something Duke does well, which might be harder to detect, than his technical weaknesses of not having tight ball control in confined spaces. If we had a player with Hrustic's close ball control, and Duke's attributes in energetically closing down the opposition which causes turnovers, plus opening viable passing lanes and making dummy runs, it would be closer to a complete attacking footballer.

One could probably add a Viduka /Duke hybrid being an ideal forward prototype!

 

[Decentric]

happy doing my bit especially to newbies, cool.

I don't think I'd consider he doesn't rate SPL outside the usual big 2, you'd think he's looking at like a open book with his team and observations of GA's history.
He has to figure it out despite what we think......

For their ages (euroroos) I don't think jet lag is huge concerns plus don't know IF they travel Biz class ??

Matildas to receive equal travel standards as Socceroos but only for the World Cup

The Matildas will be afforded the same high standards of travel and accommodation regularly enjoyed by the men, but only once every four years.

www.smh.com.au

old link can't find anything recent.

I have travelled just as long flights for years everybody's recovery is different I understand that BUT I think the main challege for most euroroos is climatising to the different pitchs compared to the softer euro ones.


In the end its up to the tactically savvy players your right no matter from where, trouble is that one like Irvine for eg who does have the caps armband that my observations is not the leader we need right now.
I thank him for his service but he's not that type of inspirational player we need today.
T

Lot of good points made in your post, LFC.

I've done a lot of long hauls too - hopefully never again!

Irvine is also a terrific athlete, covers heaps of ground, runs well off the ball when we have it, closes down space when they have it, can even one touch pass with good body shape once in a pass and move sequence in tight space - but he can't two touch and pass and move like Brattan, Hrustic, McGree, O'Neill, Caceres, Silvera - and the younger Arzani, Valadon, Teague, Villupillay, Youlley, Jake Hollman do effortlessly.

Irvine is also a very intelligent player - even if his foot skills can't always do what his mind wants to occur.

I'm impressed to see a poster like you call for him to be dropped, based on skill set deficiencies - given he is one of the few players we have playing in a UEFA Big Five league, or, one of the Big 30 - 40 UEFA clubs playing in smaller status leagues.

As for Irvine's leadership it is hard for us to appraise his leadership skills without being in the inner sanctum. He, Goodwin and Geria are some of the most articulate Socceroos we've had.

 

[Decentric]

Next is blending in together as mentioned formations/game plans, then the lack of time/drills/getting to know each others play/actions/thoughts.
Most didn't play under Poppa ?? and those that did its immaterial for your not playing a AL game its a NT one against experienced NT gaffas for starters.
I read by some that Renard really did the school work on our fellas out lets pressure Millers side for eg.
I would think Poppa would have done a tactical adjustment sooner no ?
Like if you keep getting ripped one side its pretty obvious, Miller and he played the full game.

I

Really good points made, LFC. What have you been smoking? LOL!

Didn't know Renard had done that much work on us? He coached Saudi to beat Argentina at the Qatar WC.

We are short of experienced quality RBs ATM, who are not injured. Weirdly, Talbot is playing RB at City, doing a decent job, whilst recent Socceroo RB, Atkinson, is playing DM and LB for City and appears to be a utility. They took Talbot off in one game and moved Atko to RB. We need Atko playing RB, for national team purposes.

How could Popa have changed Miller's role with the cattle he had? Good question? Popa dropped sometime RB, Baccus. I'm pleased he has dropped Smith, who Arnie loved, but was surprised Arnie rated him so highly?

Miller was really impressive against China , struggled against Japan, and also had quite a few average moments against Saudi. Hrustic was worse, but with a few classy moments that stood out.

 

[Decentric]

To clarify - I'm not saying Geria sucks. He rarely coughed up the ball despite being swarmed

I think they correctly identified our right hand side as a disfunctional unit to play out. If we play out through the left, Souttar/Burgess have 2 tecnicians in mcgree and bos to play through the lines and are both lethal with their long passes. If we play out through the right, the passing options are hrustic (good), irvine, O'niell and miller which means we cannot play through the lines and no one has the passing range to be threatening over the top

If we had a full strength team this wouldn't be a problem. Robbo or luongo gives a more technical passing option inside, metcalf and circati have a better passing range.

Bos is a more effective ball carrier than Miller on the right too. But he was held by the Saudi RB in 1v1s and probably the Saudi RW too.

I still haven't looked at the replay, but live thought O'Neill was comfortable on the ball in limited time and space. He also won hard balls. O'N was close to our best for mine - live. It might be different after watching the replay.

I'm yet to believe that Robertson or Luongo can exceed O'N's current work. Unless O'N is a designated single DM screener. He may not cover enough ground in this role. As a twin screening midfield, it suits him. His club Standard Liege, is one of the Big UEFA clubs outside the UEFA Big Five leagues. They may have played a bit of intra-continental UEFA European football too.

 

[Cunningstunt]

Really good points made, LFC. What have you been smoking? LOL!

Didn't know Renard had done that much work on us? He coached Saudi to beat Argentina at the Qatar WC.

We are short of experienced quality RBs ATM, who are not injured. Weirdly, Talbot is playing RB at City, doing a decent job, whilst recent Socceroo RB, Atkinson, is playing DM and LB for City and appears to be a utility. They took Talbot off in one game and moved Atko to RB. We need Atko playing RB, for national team purposes.

How could Popa have changed Miller's role with the cattle he had? Good question? Popa dropped sometime RB, Baccus. I'm pleased he has dropped Smith, who Arnie loved, but was surprised Arnie rated him so highly?

Miller was really impressive against China , struggled against Japan, and also had quite a few average moments against Saudi. Hrustic was worse, but with a few classy moments that stood out.

It seemed like Popa recognised the right side was an issue and pulled Hrustic at half time. Nowhere functions in isolation, RB might be a weakness but the second half was a noticeable improvement with the introduction of Velupillay. Possible the more mobile right side of midfield forced Al Sharhrani into a difficult personal match up and relieved some pressure on Miller. As we know it's not like there is a stand out RB we could have brought on, so swapping Miller for Grant may not have achieved much.

 

[LFC]

Lot of good points made in your post, LFC.

I've done a lot of long hauls too - hopefully never again!

Irvine is also a terrific athlete, covers heaps of ground, runs well off the ball when we have it, closes down space when they have it, can even one touch pass with good body shape once in a pass and move sequence in tight space - but he can't two touch and pass and move like Brattan, Hrustic, McGree, O'Neill, Caceres, Silvera - and the younger Arzani, Valadon, Teague, Villupillay, Youlley, Jake Hollman do effortlessly.

Irvine is also a very intelligent player - even if his foot skills can't always do what his mind wants to occur.

I'm impressed to see a poster like you call for him to be dropped, based on skill set deficiencies - given he is one of the few players we have playing in a UEFA Big Five league, or, one of the Big 30 - 40 UEFA clubs playing in smaller status leagues.

As for Irvine's leadership it is hard for us to appraise his leadership skills without being in the inner sanctum. He, Goodwin and Geria are some of the most articulate Socceroos we've had.

his foot skills are not there period, ok he's hanging in due to his experience but really ? if we had a better technical player to take his place regularly he'd be on the bench, thats what frustrating, his passing is irradic - he doesn't enough to appease but its not.
Like a glass half full and at that position we need a reliable box to box player.
St-Pauli is a roller coaster club between 1 and 2.
They will prob be in relegation battle again, because he's there doesn't give him the badge of honour for me- imo StP are nuts how could they not get a better player with all the offerings, must be $$$.
True we are not in the chagne room or training pitch, his experience is likely very valuable.
Sure Goodwin would the better leader period, Geria is a newby but possibly a leader from the back in the future.

 

[Keeper66]

happy doing my bit especially to newbies, cool.

I don't think I'd consider he doesn't rate SPL outside the usual big 2, you'd think he's looking at like a open book with his team and observations of GA's history.
He has to figure it out despite what we think......

For their ages (euroroos) I don't think jet lag is huge concerns plus don't know IF they travel Biz class ??

Matildas to receive equal travel standards as Socceroos but only for the World Cup

The Matildas will be afforded the same high standards of travel and accommodation regularly enjoyed by the men, but only once every four years.

www.smh.com.au

old link can't find anything recent.

I have travelled just as long flights for years everybody's recovery is different I understand that BUT I think the main challege for most euroroos is climatising to the different pitchs compared to the softer euro ones.
Next is blending in together as mentioned formations/game plans, then the lack of time/drills/getting to know each others play/actions/thoughts.
Most didn't play under Poppa ?? and those that did its immaterial for your not playing a AL game its a NT one against experienced NT gaffas for starters.
I read by some that Renard really did the school work on our fellas out lets pressure Millers side for eg.
I would think Poppa would have done a tactical adjustment sooner no ?
Like if you keep getting ripped one side its pretty obvious, Miller and he played the full game.

In the end its up to the tactically savvy players your right no matter from where, trouble is that one like Irvine for eg who does have the caps armband that my observations is not the leader we need right now.
I thank him for his service but he's not that type of inspirational player we need today.
Trouble is some of the new order are not up to it as yet and inconsistant and we are getting played off the park more than not, just lucky they lack finish not as ordinary as us.
I don't know who is our leader in the middle of the park, I don't recognise one who can lead every single time on the ball.
12yrs ago and today no matter the later savvyness its not showing enough with confidence imo

I'm pretty sure they do travel business class. I saw a video clip yesterday with Joe Gauci where he said they flew business to Dubai en route to Bahrain, and he had plenty of room to stretch out.

 

[grazorblade]

Fantastic work, Grazor!

Thanks a bunch for doing this. It is very interesting to read with the accompanying diagrams. I've been away since the game was played and haven't looked at a replay yet.

Interesting the Saudi coach induced Aus to build up on the right? Live, I was surprised we were playing on the right flank so much?

The difference between the longer diagonal balls played by Circati and Geria is interesting. Circati has good vision and executes good passes over range when he played at RB.

The diagonal passes enable the receiver to have more effective body shape to receive the ball. Straight long high, balls advantage the body position of the opposing defenders, so they can be headed on. Or if the defender wins, it often results in a second ball contest.

I hadn't thought that Burgess was an effective long passer, whilst Geria isn't, until you elucidated it in this thread.

Burgess long diagonal passes have been a key weapon for his club, less so for his country but I can see the foundations there

 

[grazorblade]

Hrustic is quite static in his off the ball work.

When Aus has the ball, Hrustic doesn't do much to open passing lanes. Hence , he doesn't get the ball much, particularly against effective, cohesive defences.

The average fan, and even former Socceroos and current pundits, Archie Thompson, and Bruce Djite, the highly accredited and educated at one stage A United Tech Dir, thought Hrustic was very effective on the ball a few times. True, he was. They contended with his good close ball control in the first half, why doesn't the team get the ball to Hrustic more often, because he is so effective on the ball?

Hrustic just doesn't show for the ball enough when teammates are just about to receive it, or have it at their feet. Hrustic doesn't check and shake the opposition markers enough with his low work rate. Aidan H isn't the typical Aus player. Not sure where he was coached in his development?

A player who receives a lot of criticism from fans, who shakes his markers and creates space well by opening passing lanes effectively, or creates dummy runs, is Mitch Duke.

Your point about Villupillay more actively moving off the ball, in our Ball Possession, is excellent. I haven't seen the replay yet, but in all probability, Nishan V dragged his marker out of the the Saudi defensive formation - or - NV was roaming and harder to mark. Saudi likely assumed a Zonal Marking system, not the less favoured Man Marking system. Hence, he opened passing lanes, or created dummy runs - resulting in space created for teammates.

Moreover, Nishan V closed down space more effectively when Aus was in Ball Possession Opposition. Plus he created more body on body duels with the Left Back Saudi marker, or others, when they had the ball, or there were 50/50 contests that he forced.

Indeed Vellupilay changed the game by providing a short option for geria while still being effective in attack. Hrustic made some effective deck balls into the box, so its a shame he didn't work harder. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts next game though since its a different challenge. We probably don't need someone to help buildups, but we probably need someone who make effective deck balls into the box.

One odd thing is they left the space in front of the last line much more open when hrustic had the ball compared to mcgree, but Hrustic never used that space. There were often free players (usually oniell and irvine) in either the half space and z14 which were unmarked but we never went that route

 

[grazorblade]

his foot skills are not there period, ok he's hanging in due to his experience but really ? if we had a better technical player to take his place regularly he'd be on the bench, thats what frustrating, his passing is irradic - he doesn't enough to appease but its not.
Like a glass half full and at that position we need a reliable box to box player.
St-Pauli is a roller coaster club between 1 and 2.
They will prob be in relegation battle again, because he's there doesn't give him the badge of honour for me- imo StP are nuts how could they not get a better player with all the offerings, must be $$$.
True we are not in the chagne room or training pitch, his experience is likely very valuable.
Sure Goodwin would the better leader period, Geria is a newby but possibly a leader from the back in the future.

I know where you are coming from, but we have had even worse players on the ball do well in europe (Jedinak!) These sort of workhorse mids who are generals off the ball can still find teams at a good level. It would be a very brave coach to drop a bundesliga captain rather than work around their pros and cons

 

[grazorblade]

Live, I thought O'Neill was quite comfortable on the ball in tight spaces.

With Popa coaching, and selecting AL players, it is showing when games are played in Aus, non- jetlagged AL players are much closer to the standard of Euroroos.

Arnold may have underestimated a few A L domestic players.

Popa in interviews has really emphasized conditioning

Even during the golden generation, aussie fans were often shocked how aussie players would sometimes struggle to play the same level in asia as they did for their club. Jetlag is brutal (I travel a lot in my career) no one should underestimate it!

 

[grazorblade]

well that reads to me the divide isn't that great between locals to offshore players barring the exceptions.
Therefore thats not looking promising ahead.

why wouldn't the opposite be true? If A league based players have caught up with 2nd tier euro players surely that is a good thing. 2nd tier euro players are jetlagged mind you (I find jetlag absolutely brutal)

 

[grazorblade]

Bos is a more effective ball carrier than Miller on the right too. But he was held by the Saudi RB in 1v1s and probably the Saudi RW too.

I still haven't looked at the replay, but live thought O'Neill was comfortable on the ball in limited time and space. He also won hard balls. O'N was close to our best for mine - live. It might be different after watching the replay.

I'm yet to believe that Robertson or Luongo can exceed O'N's current work. Unless O'N is a designated single DM screener. He may not cover enough ground in this role. As a twin screening midfield, it suits him. His club Standard Liege, is one of the Big UEFA clubs outside the UEFA Big Five leagues. They may have played a bit of intra-continental UEFA European football too.

If we play irvine I'd be in favour of having cdm with a better first touch and handling speed but less work rate to balance the team, much like Jedi needed to be paired with a technical cdm