The best school of football for Australia

[Barca4life]

Welcome to the forum, Barca!

Thanks mate, same to you.

 

[The Flying Bat]

From the athletic

Ten Hag does put on enjoyable sessions, with one drill named after Atletico Madrid manager Diego Simeone. It involves two teams of seven facing off on a small-sided pitch, with one group in a low block and the other trying to pass their way through. It is said to be a rewarding game of cat and mouse. Ten Hag is regarded as a workaholic who regularly takes footage home to watch. Sometimes players have found that too much, such as when Ten Hag tried to coach

Tried to coach?

I'm not sure there's a lot of detailed instructions in the coerver coaching methodology. It's short on practical strategies, tools and techniques and requires little knowledge of what is required to succeed at the top echelons of the modern game....

It might have had limited success in the 1970's but it's old hat nowadays. Anyone trying to sell this in the modern era will probably be laughed at around various federations.

 

[onedaywinners...]

p.s. here is the change to a game intervention game model

https://www.playfootball.com.au/sites/play/files/2018-08/FOOTBALL_Skill%20Acquisition%20Manual_A4_Web_Single%20Pages%5B1%5D.pdf

this is a slight step in the same direction the brittish fa are going, but still the practice sessions are much better than the free ones you get in england imo

This 'version' of skill acquisition is the traditional model what I was taught at uni in 2012, and I've since learnt on my own further studies that the latest sports science in this area is more along the lines of ecological dynamics and the constraints led approach approach (CLA).

Sorry this stuff has been my side passion piece since early lockdowns and my belief is that all sport 'coaching' will eventually start to head in this direction. I've approached it specifically from a cricket lense as that is my sport of most knowledge. However I have come to love and adore the game of football equally and I don't see why these concepts can't be applied across any movement activity (sport).

If you're interested this is 39 min but it shows a football example of some of the key concepts:
A Different Way of Thinking About Soccer Practice & Coaching

 

[grazorblade]

This 'version' of skill acquisition is the traditional model what I was taught at uni in 2012, and I've since learnt on my own further studies that the latest sports science in this area is more along the lines of ecological dynamics and the constraints led approach approach (CLA).

Sorry this stuff has been my side passion piece since early lockdowns and my belief is that all sport 'coaching' will eventually start to head in this direction. I've approached it specifically from a cricket lense as that is my sport of most knowledge. However I have come to love and adore the game of football equally and I don't see why these concepts can't be applied across any movement activity (sport).

If you're interested this is 39 min but it shows a football example of some of the key concepts:
A Different Way of Thinking About Soccer Practice & Coaching

The gig approach was rolled out 2018. I guess we will start to see if the gig approach works better when kids born 2009 start coming through. Hopefully there will be confounding variables of the nst launching a h and a season (perhaps a league expansion and a nyl as well)

 

[The Flying Bat]

A common misconception with this so called KNVB methodology is that it produces more adaptable football players. But if you have watched much of the Eredivisie (broadcast on Triller tv+ in Australia) you begin to feel a bit bored by the stylistic attributes of their home grown players.

As an example I watched the game between Utrecht and Feyenoord the other day and it was an easy 2-0 win for the Rotterdam club. Feyenoord really just breezed through the game. 2-0 up early in the second half and nothing in reply from their opposition.

There was no reaction from the Utrecht players at all. They just kept on doing the same thing. Same thing, no adoption of play. Sure they've got a good technique and understand their tactics, the pattern of play and so on but unable to problem solve....

Just same ol, same ol, same ol....

A few weeks previous I watched Sparta lose in similar fashion to PSV. Although to be fair Sparta did score first but let PSV back into the game without having the adaptability to react and try something different.

Now when Donny Van De Beek went to Manchester United a few years ago one of the biggest concerns about his play early on was his inability to adapt to the plethora of situations you get in an English Premier League game. It was apparently very noticeable and many of his fellow players would scratch their heads wondering how he actually made it into the professional game....

 

[onedaywinners...]

A common misconception with this so called KNVB methodology is that it produces more adaptable football players. But if you have watched much of the Eredivisie (broadcast on Triller tv+ in Australia) you begin to feel a bit bored by the stylistic attributes of their home grown players.

As an example I watched the game between Utrecht and Feyenoord the other day and it was an easy 2-0 win for the Rotterdam club. Feyenoord really just breezed through the game. 2-0 up early in the second half and nothing in reply from their opposition.

There was no reaction from the Utrecht players at all. They just kept on doing the same thing. Same thing, no adoption of play. Sure they've got a good technique and understand their tactics, the pattern of play and so on but unable to problem solve....

Just same ol, same ol, same ol....

A few weeks previous I watched Sparta lose in similar fashion to PSV. Although to be fair Sparta did score first but let PSV back into the game without having the adaptability to react and try something different.

Now when Donny Van De Beek went to Manchester United a few years ago one of the biggest concerns about his play early on was his inability to adapt to the plethora of situations you get in an English Premier League game. It was apparently very noticeable and many of his fellow players would scratch their heads wondering how he actually made it into the professional game....

yep yep yep love it and agree.

Got to be able to find functional movement solutions by using your perceptual motor skills in a live game situation.

In cricket you are taught HOW to bat and must keep trying to perfect this and bettering your technique. The best of all time at this average around 50 runs per innings. Then there's the bloke called Donald Bradman who learnt how to hit a fast moving projectile by throwing a golf ball against a corrugated iron rain tank and hitting it with a single cricket stump.

At the end of Bradman's career he averaged 99.94 per innings. He wasn't twice as good everyone else, he was just focused on solving the problem of each ball using his own perceptual motor skills. He did it his way and it was the most effective for him because all his movement solutions were completely his own.

 

[grazorblade]

yep yep yep love it and agree.

Got to be able to find functional movement solutions by using your perceptual motor skills in a live game situation.

In cricket you are taught HOW to bat and must keep trying to perfect this and bettering your technique. The best of all time at this average around 50 runs per innings. Then there's the bloke called Donald Bradman who learnt how to hit a fast moving projectile by throwing a golf ball against a corrugated iron rain tank and hitting it with a single cricket stump.

At the end of Bradman's career he averaged 99.94 per innings. He wasn't twice as good everyone else, he was just focused on solving the problem of each ball using his own perceptual motor skills. He did it his way and it was the most effective for him because all his movement solutions were completely his own.

I suppose the GIG approach prioritizes problem solving in match situations whereas knvb with their 4 stages of training prioritizes individual skill. Sounds a bit of a tradeoff

 

[The Flying Bat]

I suppose the GIG approach prioritizes problem solving in match situations whereas knvb with their 4 stages of training prioritizes individual skill. Sounds a bit of a tradeoff

Football or football as we know it is not an exact science. If you want a rigid playbook of 200 set routines play or coach American Football. In fact I've always thought that this KNVB methodology would be better suited to Grid Iron. Or in Australian terms you could easily adapt it to Rugby League.....

But I would keep the KNVB methodology well.away from the beautiful game. Football is art, it's about creativity and unorthodoxy.

A KNVB coaching culture in our game equates to an inflexible and unyielding grounding for young players. We should be eliminating it from the modern coaching programmes.

 

[grazorblade]

Football or football as we know it is not an exact science. If you want a rigid playbook of 200 set routines play or coach American Football. In fact I've always thought that this KNVB methodology would be better suited to Grid Iron. Or in Australian terms you could easily adapt it to Rugby League.....

But I would keep the KNVB methodology well.away from the beautiful game. Football is art, it's about creativity and unorthodoxy.

A KNVB coaching culture in our game equates to an inflexible and unyielding grounding for young players. We should be eliminating it from the modern coaching programmes.

Not sure what you mean. Have u done knvb? You dont learn a bunch of set plays....

 

[The Flying Bat]

You've obviously bought into it. Fair enough, each to their own.Your KNVB methodology talks about innovative solutions but it couldn't be an further from that. Sure it's not set plays per se but it's so called templates strategies certainly give you that notion....watch some Dutch football and see....

They sell you a system of coaching instruction manuals that leave you wondering why?

Football coaching needs to be more diverse than these tailor made regurgitations spruiked by these shysters from Amsterdam...

 

[LFC]

I seriously question why why the ongoing Dutch so called methodology.
I get it during the Cruyff period and players that followed through those decades And his tenure at Barca but his methods vision was working with top flight players.
Sure Ajax etc are known as development club/and league but they don't have players in top flight numbers like latinos/sth merican and other euro countries unless I'm mistaken.
Sure there is some brilliant players just I'm always thinking why can't we tailor what suits our DNA and the type of players we are producing.
We are following and really can't see us looking confident/dominate but grafters.
The other question in regards to top flight football leagues and WC the Dutch have been one of the many making up the numbers for a long long time.
I'm no rocket stats type of person but for the keen eye having been a player and viewer all my life.
I tend to agree in quite a few comments made by the Batman.

 

[The Flying Bat]

The whole statistics in football is another one of these silly fads that come and eventually go. It seems everyone nowadays using stats for everything in football, I personally don't agree with the notion that stats can give you a full understanding....

I'm a firm believer that a player can have 0 goals and assists In a game but be the most influential & best player on the field.

George Best never looked at his stats...he was never given any. Neither was Diego Maradona or Alfredo di Stefano...

It's just a cult, a load of nerdy nerdy types with no soul for the game.

 

[Barca4life]

I’ve seen some things on about the debate between Van Gaal vs Cruyff both pioneers of Dutch football but both with different views of the game.
Both follow the positional game but with differences.

The Van Gaal ethos’s is about technique but also about teamwork whilst the Cruyff ethos’s is also about technique but more focus on individuality and creativity.

It seems Australia has followed the Van Gaal, Hiddink route which is good but maybe it’s too rigid for our culture and deficiencies where it focuses more on teamwork where is maybe we were better off with the Cruyff model which has proven to be very successful at Barcelona.

An interesting debate that’s for sure.

 

[LFC]

there you go Barca.
Van Gaal was always a rigid type of manager as well.
He really pissed off some top players through his tenure's and look of his recent WC failures with some damn decent squads.
Now IF it were Cruyff managing them where do you think it may end up ?
I'll say the Final I expect, may lose it but would have made the dance floor.

Our system nails back the creative player for 2 decades at least, Cruyff wouldn't have allowed that.
Why couldn't there be some flexibilty by the these so called stat madmen in observations.
Hey we got a wild one, doesn't follow all the rules but damn, he can cut through many, takes a shot when he feels like it, hey lets give this kid some rope.
NO we can't do that because the book is like the ten commandments and we must follow the stats for they are never wrong, BS.

 

[The Flying Bat]

I’ve seen some things on about the debate between Van Gaal vs Cruyff both pioneers of Dutch football but both with different views of the game.
Both follow the positional game but with differences.

The Van Gaal ethos’s is about technique but also about teamwork whilst the Cruyff ethos’s is also about technique but more focus on individuality and creativity.

It seems Australia has followed the Van Gaal, Hiddink route which is good but maybe it’s too rigid for our culture and deficiencies where it focuses more on teamwork where is maybe we were better off with the Cruyff model which has proven to be very successful at Barcelona.

An interesting debate that’s for sure.

The KNVB methodology had its place in the global football coaching cosmos. But it's time has gone, the world moves on and so has football. It should be consigned to the annals of history.

And yes the methodology is now replaced by a mythology.

The writer of this thread KNVB 'Mythology' got it spot on.

 

[Barca4life]

The KNVB methodology had its place in the global football coaching cosmos. But it's time has gone, the world moves on and so has football. It should be consigned to the annals of history.

And yes the methodology is now replaced by a mythology.

The writer of this thread KNVB 'Mythology' got it spot on.

And that's why i'm intrigued with the new technical plan put in place by Merrick and FA and to see what differentiates from the old FFA NC, disappointing is there is no news regarding it.
They only released news on the academy stuff but nothing else so far regarding the rest of the plan.

 

[Barca4life]

there you go Barca.
Van Gaal was always a rigid type of manager as well.
He really pissed off some top players through his tenure's and look of his recent WC failures with some damn decent squads.
Now IF it were Cruyff managing them where do you think it may end up ?
I'll say the Final I expect, may lose it but would have made the dance floor.

Our system nails back the creative player for 2 decades at least, Cruyff wouldn't have allowed that.
Why couldn't there be some flexibilty by the these so called stat madmen in observations.
Hey we got a wild one, doesn't follow all the rules but damn, he can cut through many, takes a shot when he feels like it, hey lets give this kid some rope.
NO we can't do that because the book is like the ten commandments and we must follow the stats for they are never wrong, BS.

Van Gaal had a fall out with Argentina's most creative players they have ever produced with Riquelme and Di Maria so that might explain some of the clash.

But Cruyff loved those kind of players, there was structure under him but it allowed freedom of movement and players to make their own decisions around it which no coincidence they he came from the total football era which that style originated from.

Maybe the FFA back in that time needed him as the TD instead lol.

 

[Quicky]

The whole statistics in football is another one of these silly fads that come and eventually go. It seems everyone nowadays using stats for everything in football, I personally don't agree with the notion that stats can give you a full understanding....

I'm a firm believer that a player can have 0 goals and assists In a game but be the most influential & best player on the field.

George Best never looked at his stats...he was never given any. Neither was Diego Maradona or Alfredo di Stefano...

It's just a cult, a load of nerdy nerdy types with no soul for the game.

So Solanke could be Tottenhams best

Stats are just a tool like anything else. They can be used well or misused. They shouldn't be dismissed but they're not the whole picture either.

 

[The Flying Bat]

So Solanke could be Tottenhams best

Stats are just a tool like anything else. They can be used well or misused. They shouldn't be dismissed but they're not the whole picture either.

 

[The Flying Bat]

Seriously though Tottenham’s best player is Son Heung-min but he's right off the boil in the last couple of seasons. Maddison has the potential to be a top player but after a good start he's gone backwards since joining Spurs.

Not sure why the current system of play used at Tottenham is stifling so many of the most interesting players.

Ol' mate Ange isn't one of these KNVB cultists is he??