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Australian politics.

I literally have not met a Jew in Australia. And if I have I didn't know about it.

There's not a single person I've met, as far as I know, that is Jewish.

This obsession with Jews, in Australia, is beyond weird for me.
 
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zimbos05 said:
It really is not a pipe dream because there are other countries that do it and are successful at it. Why do we let corporations get away with so much. Who cares if a mining company threatens to leave. They can't take the ground with them. Let the government create a mining company and get the funds to go straight back into the coffers to be used for the people.
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See page 1 of this thread for commentary on Miles and royalties by moi.
 
Muz said:
I literally have not met a Jew in Australia. And if I have I didn't know about.

There's not a single person, as far as I know, that is Jewish.

This obsession with Jews, in Australia, is beyond weird for me.
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If you haven't met many there perhaps the obsession is how underrepresented they are?
 
'Let the hate flow through you'

www.smh.com.au

Rinehart blames ‘left media’ for Coalition wipeout, claims voters ‘very short on understanding’

Mining magnate Gina Rinehart says Australians should learn from US citizens she met as she wandered the streets of New York in a MAGA hat.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

Insert link into 12ft.io if paywalled.

Along with Bolt and Credlin saying they need to go further right here comes Gina to join the conga line of fuckwits.

Are they fucking stupid or what?? It is as plain as the nose on your face that no one, except a few loons, thinks anything Trump is doing is a good fit for Australia.

All I can say is good, spend the next 20 years in opposition if you think this is the answer.


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melbcityguy said:
If you haven't met many there perhaps the obsession is how underrepresented they are?
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Underrepresented with regards to what? They're sweet fuck all of the population.

What exactly are you on about?

How many Jewish people do you know personally?

I'd argue, based on nothing in particular, that if anything, they overly represented given how much time seems to be devoted to them.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Proud of our country today... No matter what issues divide us, the nation has shown that kindness, empathy and ambition are still values held dear by the Australian people.... Culture wars and fear-mongering belong to lesser nations, we still care about each other, want EVERYONE to share in teh bounty of this land, respect our multicultural differences, concede defeat graciously (big kudos to Dutton) and respect the process which gives all a voice.... bravo Australia....
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Hey mate. Just a shout out for a great post.

👏
 
Muz said:
Underrepresented with regards to what? They're sweet fuck all of the population.

What exactly are you on about?

How many Jewish people do you know personally?

I'd argue, based on nothing in particular, that if anything, they overly represented given how much time seems to be devoted to them.
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Well sir my partner is Jewish so I know her family and friends. You interjected in mine and zimbos chat so I'm not sure your point
 
melbcityguy said:
Well sir my partner is Jewish so I know her family and friends. You interjected in mine and zimbos chat so I'm not sure your point
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I didn't interject into your conversation. I made a stand alone comment and you jumped in to reply to me.

Now if you're up for a chat why do you think this tiny sliver of the Australian population is underrepresented?

Underrepresented with regards to what?

What's so special about Jewish people that deems them more worthy of 'representation' than any other particular group?
 
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Muz said:
I didn't interject into your conversation. I made a stand alone comment and you jumped in to reply to me.

Now if you're up for a chat why do you think this tiny sliver of the Australian population is underrepresented?

Underrepresented with regards to what?
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I just think anti semitism is seen as more acceptable then being anti any other race. Like there were protests going on the Jewish suburbs I found that strange. The Jews don't protest in other suburbs not that I seen anyways.

But I agree you can be anti Zionist without being anti semitic
 
melbcityguy said:
I just think anti semitism is seen as more acceptable then being anti any other race. Like there were protests going on the Jewish suburbs I found that strange. The Jews don't protest in other suburbs not that I seen anyways.

But I agree you can be anti Zionist without being anti semitic
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Based on what?
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Sorry but I disagree... MOST Zionists I have ever heard of are Jews (What other group would you consider Zionist?) ..... however NOT all Jews are Zionists, that much is abundantly obvious...
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Again, you're not understanding the point. Are all Christians Nazis? No. But if I hated Nazis, would you say I hate Christians?

There are Zionist Muslims. The main point being made was that the Greens hate Jews, which is not true. They hate Zionism. That the Zionists are predominantly Jewish is not linked to them hating Jews.

melbcityguy said:
So did the greens condemn

So what have the greens done for the Jewish community and have they condemn anti semitism?
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Greens condemn antisemitism and Islamophobia in wake of Middle East attacks | The Australian Greens

Leader of the Australian Greens Adam Bandt MP has condemned instances of hate and bigotry in Australia, and expressed concern over civilian deaths in Israel and Palestine.
greens.org.au greens.org.au

Was literally the first link when I googled, "the greens antisemitism"
 
grazorblade said:
I hope we are close enough mates that I can venture with some pretty blunt statements in my response




"

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grazorblade said:
I hope we are close enough mates that I can venture with some pretty blunt statements in my response

It is common for communities that have a problem with bigotry against a group to underestimate the amount of bigotry a group faces and underestimating antisemitism is itself evidence that left wing activist circles have become antisemitic

Australian police data is unfortunately more fragmented than the uk and the usa, but we can look at ECAJ and the islamaphobia register to estimate hate crime incidents before and after october 7 and it follows similar trends in the anglo sphere.

Pre Oct 7 there were 0.34 antisemitic incidents per 1000 people per month. After oct 7 this rose to 1.56
This compares to 0.012 islamaphobic incidents per 1000 people per month pre oct7 which has jumped to 0.091.
Self reporting surveys have similar numbers for islamaphobic incidents compared to higher numbers for antisemetic incidents indicating that police are probably underestimating this issue. Even if you take raw numbers not adjusted for population there are significantly more anti-semitic hate crimes than islamaphobic

We have more detailed data from other anglosphere countries and they show similar jumps after oct 7 as well as giving breakdowns in motivations. Before oct 7, 60% of anti-religious hate crimes in the usa were anti semitic and 3/4ths of that was right wing antisemitic. After oct 7 it has been a surge in left wing antisemitism driving the numbers.

It is simply not plausible that islamophobia is more prevalent and tolerated than antisemitism though in any case both are pathologies that need to be fixed. Left wingers dominate journalism, non-profits, academia and major political parties and there is strong institutional support for left wing anti semitism. Elitist bigotry is, in my view, much more alarming than grass roots bigotry since it has more opportunity to cause damage (much like the election of Trump has given institutional support for elitist right wing bigotry)

"It has been the case that some Jewish organisations have more clout and been able to exert pressure on Labor MPs to repudiate the attacks against Jews more than attacks on Islam."

I don't think labour mps are having their strings pulled by Jewish puppet masters and that is an antisemitic trope

"As I've stated in the previous post it is important to differentiate between Jews and the Israeli Netanyahu government.

One progressive Aus Jewish group, (it might be the Aus Jewery Council, not sure though?) is concerned about the genocide in Gaza and Israel's aggressive role. They want the Aus Labor govt to do more to support Palestinians."

The accusation of genocide is blood libel in my view and an antisemitic trope (holocaust inversion). It is also common for bigoted groups to tokenize members of a minority. Think for example Candace Owens as the voice of Black people in American right wing circles. A bigoted group can reinforce their bigoted echo chamber by having a rare member of a minority agree with them. Jews in general skew left but the antizionist Jews that can still socially survive in left wing dominated spaces are as tokenized as Candace Owens. In the USA roughly 80% of Jews feel a connection to Israel and believe Israel should exist as a distinctly Jewish state. Globally you are looking at 90% of Jews with the same views (half of Jews live in Israel). 72% of American Jews also say Israel makes them feel proud to feel Jewish. Pew research shows 89% of American Jews support the war of Israel on Gaza and 62% found Israel's conduct in conducting the war acceptable. Shoen Cooperman research found 81% support Israel continuing their ground operation. Support for a cease fire has grown though to around 50%. That doesn't mean that should be our views, but it does mean that you should be cautious about tokenization of Jewish voices.

"As I've said before there are Jews in Labor Friends Of Palestine in this state, and Jews who are members of Friends of Palestine and Aus Palestine Advocacy Network. They feel the Israeli govt is doing to Gazans, what Hitler did to them in WW 2."

]Historically, antisemitism has often spread through blood libel. Often, whatever is most unvirtuous in a society is put on the Jews as a scapegoat. In left wing circles the worst things are nazism, apartheid, white supremecy and colonialism and these are the accusations leveled at the one Jewish majority state in the world through wild exaggeration. Holocaust inversion is an example of a common blood libel trope. This doesn't mean Israel has been innocent, no country has, or that there aren't legitimate grievances, but it becomes blood libel when we take the worst things in western history and scape goat the Jews.

"At the same time, the original attacks by Hamas against Israeli citizens on October 7th and taking hostages, was abhorrent. It took me some 5 months before I became active ( like many others) in the Palestinian support groups, because of the original Hamas wrongdoing."

I'm obviously grateful for your activism in helping a labour victory which was a brilliant night. However, I'm concerned you have gotten yourself into an epistemic bubble here which has huge blind spots about antisemitism (including some of what I see as casual antisemitism in your post!) Hope once all the Champagne is justifiably drunk after your hard work you give serious thought to this issue
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I'm having trouble with the soft ware.

Take your point with the stats. Thanks for posting them. I have had no access to data. 1.6 compared to 0.01 is quite a difference. However, to play the devil's advocate, did more Jews report anti-Semetic attacks than Muslims reported attacks on Islam?

Is Islamaphobia more prevalent in Aus and does the Muslim community feel like there will be less likelihood of action in support of them? I'm posing the question, not claiming it is true.

Internally within Labor Fed Muslim MPs Ann Ahly, Ed Husic and Senator Fatima Payman, the latter who has left the party, claimed they had data showing the stats ( which I haven't seen) were the inverse of yours. That it is Islamaphobia that has been more prevalent. FP has told me the incidents of Islamaphobia are far greater than incidents of anti- Semitism.

Conversely, Jew Josh Wilson, whose office was nastily attacked and ransacked, plus Mark Dreyfus and Richard Marles, have been vociferous supporting the Jewish claims of anti- Semitism.

Left wingers may dominate academic institutions, but I repudiate that the media is leftist orientated in Aus, or that left wingers dominate political parties. The only tabloid in Southern Tas is the Mercury, a Murdoch publication. Murdoch dominates Aus media, having tabloids in every state, plus the Australian. I'm not sure what market share Sky/Fox have? I think the ABC and SBS is neutral, although probably rallying against Dutton/LNP wanting to sack them and disband them if elected. Fairfax, Age and SMH are neutral. TV networks 7, 9 and 10 tend to be conservative.
I read the Guardian, New Daily, Saturday Paper and Michael West Media, but they might have small distribution apart from The Guardian. These networks are leftist though.

The Aus Labor govt provides weapons of war to support the Israeli war machine. Hamas shouldn't have started the action against Israel, and taken hostages, but 40 000 - 50 000 Gazans have been killed by the Israeli war machine, despite ongoing protests by Israeli citizens.

The allusion to American Jews supporting the unjust genocide/war on Gaza, in terms of having killed 50 000 Gazans, including many civilians and non- combatants, seems immaterial. The subsequent point you make carries little validity, because of the imbalance in life lost in Gaza. How many Israelis have lost lives compared to 50 000 Gazans?

As for Jews questioning the Israeli govt actions?
1. HL is a Canadian Jew who we in Educators For Peace have used as a keynote speaker. She has said publicly, speaking sitting next to a Palestinian leader in TPAN/APAN who applauded her, she was brought up to respect all nationalities except Palestinians. HL questioned it?
2. MA works for A Labor MP. Is an active member for Labor Friends Of Palestine. MA says it is difficult for her, but she feels she must pursue the morally correct position in a just cause.
3. In the moving film, Where Olive Trees Weep, two very eloquent and erudite Jews, a dark haired female academic and a much older bloke, both use the analogy of Netanayhu doing the same to Gazans as Hitler did to the Jews in the holocaust. Their words, not mine.

I've given pretty serious though to this issue, Grazor. I defer to others who know a lot more than me, but I've addressed TPAN/APAN political rallies from the perspective of conveying support and solidarity offered by the National and local Retired Unionist Networks, or Educators For Peace ( Aus Educ Union),which have authorised me to advocate on their behalf, because these groups are perceived as peace movements.

With Educators For Peace, we support any group oppressed by war, like Ukraine. Labor Friends Of Palestine, comes under the umbrella of Labor Against War, which is campaigning against AUKUS and supports Ukraine against Russia.

When I started to research the Israel/ Palestine conflict, what was the catalyst for action, was the research conducted by the reputable Amnesty International - which is recognised as pretty impartial. The ongoing maltreatment of Palestinians by Israelis is elucidated in depth by Amnesty.
 
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Monoethnic Social Club said:
Sorry but I disagree... MOST Zionists I have ever heard of are Jews (What other group would you consider Zionist?) ..... however NOT all Jews are Zionists, that much is abundantly obvious...
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Christian Zionists, who are all protestant (not all protestant are), specifically the evangelical heartland of the USA are Christian Zionists. You'll find similarly in Australia such people exist. Many British observant protestant Christians are either Zionists or sympathetic to Israel.
 
melbcityguy said:
Well sir my partner is Jewish so I know her family and friends. You interjected in mine and zimbos chat so I'm not sure your point
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Hope married life is going well for you, MCG!

I hope it is not a personal question, but how does your wife and her family feel about the Gazan war/genocide?

You might have seen my posts where a number of Jews are active in supporting pressure groups protesting about the conflict in Gaza.

I'd also suggest I've met no Greens ( and I've met a lot) who are anti- Jew. There are plenty who are anti- Netanyahu, but not anti- Jew.
 
Whereas all my union comrades are buzzing about the election result, preserving and entrenching the union movement, a lot of my environmental/climate activist mates are muted in response.

Fox and Sky will have extensively researched any mud and dirt they can get on these key figures, and they've found nothing!

Albo.

Jim Chalmers.

The two dynamic leaders of the union movement, who have no ego. They are very well-respected.

Sally McManus.

Michelle O'Neil.
 
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