The best school of football for Australia

[Decentric]

To some degree south americans are complaining. They use different language "the europeanization" of their style. I posted a video on conmenbol thread on this with some discussion.

The difference is that now South American teams use Euro concepts of Pressing and Squeezing when the other team has the ball in their game plans.

14 years ago the World Cup, Argentina sat back in a Half Press with only moderate Squeezing. Now they are capable of playing high intensity Squeezing and Full Pressing in their game plans. They are much harder to play through. Ditto Mexico.

I wonder if fans are unhappy about this change - which makes them more effective?

 

[Decentric]

Taught > inculcate. Sometimes plain English is better.

You might be right, Quicky.

However, by using inculcate I mean that a player is taught over and over in a sustained, protracted period, certain techniques or strategies.

Inculcate is more concise to convey the massage - in this instance.

 

[Decentric]

ofcourse stats was coming into the game - and the modern game took to it like wildfire - incl the countless other additions the Pro game expanded on.
Just look at the employee list of the big Clubs - like corporations.
I've read Kupers but he's late on this subject such as this of his hence the modern day coachs named.

Keep your eye on the stats

Subscribers // by Simon Kuper (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, July 2013)

mondediplo.com

This below I'm sure you'd find more facinating for its the pioneer long before used in English Div1 pre EPL.

Nutmeg Magazine. The Scottish football periodical

Nutmeg is a high-class home for quality articles about Scottish football’s past, present and future

www.nutmegmagazine.co.uk

Wow young un's, look up Graham Taylor was a legend back in the day.

Anway as I've mentioned in other discussions when talking top leagues its not like for like - players who have made it (well not all are that great) have the ability been picked for top levels we're talking grass roots up pre Snr's that our system/s, be it not Dutch I'm led to believe but for Burgers name, be it a mix of countless styles has its flaws at the same time.
Too rigid, stifled individual promising young players, possession possession reset reset reset - we do have robots no one can deny this.
We have NO true strikers, regular scorers, 1/2 midfield complete players.
We have imports such as Souttar - whereis more robust tall capable CB's like Souttar made in Oz.
There's plenty chemicals in the chickens eaten today, why haven't we got any monsters
I don't want to hear wait for this next U23 gen, I have heard read of this for 20yrs.
The Japs have left us behind, as some other asian/ME NT's have shown as well.

When I grew up before all this analysis, it was in the Coach's head, their experience, their nouse watching players in varied positions and their ability.
You sure well can tell when someone "has" it or the potential.
Having played Div1 and Rep my Jnr's and mature age Div1 I have watched some very talented individuals that the last 20yrs would have been driven out of the game or had to change their natural game 3fold to stay in the game.
As the winning Argie WC coach said recently and this is due to stats/methodologys imo :

Scaloni: "We are losing the essence of football, and not only at the professional level, but also at the kids’ level"​

It is becoming robotic - oh he/she is a hog, you can't be selfish, everyone is a winner at Jnr level, well won't they suffer mental health forging ahead - your gonna cop loss's petal.
You know what the system should be endorsing now is ? encouraging the budding individual to be let loose.
Encouraged how to work with his/her team mates but go for it - this will counter act the robots, they don't know how to deal when "jokers" are released in the pack.
There's the hole to expose.

Some coaches may adhere to the practice of don't try to dribble.

I don't.

Ball hogs was a topic brought up by some coaches in an old Soccer Aus ( pre Baan) coaching course I attended. One wants players to be able to dribble in the right areas of the pitch - and - at the right time.

 

[Decentric]

With regard to Solanke or statistics? Because I wasn't being serious about Solanke if you missed the winky face. I just find it ironic that you pointed to statistics to suggest Solanke was no good (Ange thread) and now say statistics are a fad. I agree they don't tell the full story, but they are useful.

Agree.

Stats do not tel the full story, but placed in he hands of coaches, or even fans, who know how to interpret them, they are a very useful tool. According to renowned football author, Simon Kuper, In Soccernomics, all EPL coaches now use them.

Off forum, a mate sad that Jason Geria had had a bad game for Melb Victory after two great Socceroo performances against China and Japan. He vindicated it by saying that out of 6 aerial duels, Geria lost 4. It wasn't my recollection from watching the game live.

Watching the game live, I thought Geria had had a solid performance for Melb Vic after his Socceroo matches. I watched a replay until half time as a repeat, as I particularly like observing some of the fantastic young Victory players.

There were 3 aerial duels. However, I wouldn't have defined them as 1 v1 duels. This is because in the 3 duels Geria had a far more favourable body position before 1 contest - and - the opponents had a far more favourable body position before the other 2 contests. They were definitely not what I define as 1 v 1s.

1v1s are when player starts the contests from a similar starting positions, with no body shape advantage.

 

[Keeper66]

Agree.

Stats do not tel the full story, but placed in he hands of coaches, or even fans, who know how to interpret them, they are a very useful tool. According to renowned football author, Simon Kuper, In Soccernomics, all EPL coaches now use them.

Off forum, a mate sad that Jason Geria had had a bad game for Melb Victory after two great Socceroo performances against China and Japan. He vindicated it by saying that out of 6 aerial duels, Geria lost 4. It wasn't my recollection from watching the game live.

Watching the game live, I thought Geria had had a solid performance for Melb Vic after his Socceroo matches. I watched a replay until half time as a repeat, as I particularly like observing some of the fantastic young Victory players.

There were 3 aerial duels. However, I wouldn't have defined them as 1 v1 duels. This is because in the 3 duels Geria had a far more favourable body position before 1 contest - and - the opponents had a far more favourable body position before the other 2 contests. They were definitely not what I define as 1 v 1s.

1v1s are when player starts the contests from a similar starting positions, with no body shape advantage.

Not sure I would agree there, I think that part of a 1v1 is a player getting his body in the right position. So if a duel is lost due to poor positioning before the duel, I would still say it is a duel lost. I know that sometimes poor positioning might be something the player couldn't avoid due to other circumstances, but that is just part of the game. If you lose a challenge due to poor body positioning, make sure that next time you do something to improve your postioning.

 

[grazorblade]

The difference is that now South American teams use Euro concepts of Pressing and Squeezing when the other team has the ball in their game plans.

14 years ago the World Cup, Argentina sat back in a Half Press with only moderate Squeezing. Now they are capable of playing high intensity Squeezing and Full Pressing in their game plans. They are much harder to play through. Ditto Mexico.

I wonder if fans are unhappy about this change - which makes them more effective?

Off the ball they dont mind, the lower amound of improvisation on the ball. The video is fascinating it is in comenbal

 

[grazorblade]

Some coaches may adhere to the practice of don't try to dribble.

I don't.

Ball hogs was a topic brought up by some coaches in an old Soccer Aus ( pre Baan) coaching course I attended. One wants players to be able to dribble in the right areas of the pitch - and - at the right time.

Ball hogs are complicated. They kill things for other players. If they really are dazzling maybe its worth it. But usually its just bullies with no more talent than the other kid tbh. If the parents are obnoxious they might think the coach is holding them back by forcing them to pass

 

[grazorblade]

Not sure I would agree there, I think that part of a 1v1 is a player getting his body in the right position. So if a duel is lost due to poor positioning before the duel, I would still say it is a duel lost. I know that sometimes poor positioning might be something the player couldn't avoid due to other circumstances, but that is just part of the game. If you lose a challenge due to poor body positioning, make sure that next time you do something to improve your postioning.

I didnt watch the replay but put his poor positioning down to fatigue, his reactions seemed slower and less spritely after a grueling nt schedule. Got better the following week

A lot of our euroroos struggle for their clubs the week after international duty and fans can lose patience

 

[Decentric]

Not sure I would agree there, I think that part of a 1v1 is a player getting his body in the right position. So if a duel is lost due to poor positioning before the duel, I would still say it is a duel lost. I know that sometimes poor positioning might be something the player couldn't avoid due to other circumstances, but that is just part of the game. If you lose a challenge due to poor body positioning, make sure that next time you do something to improve your postioning.

Actually not so much body position advantage (although that can be the case with a defender having body position advantage over a forward contesting a ball punted from the defender's opposition goal).

But having significantly better proximity to the ball before the contest occurs, makes it an uneven contest.

 

[Decentric]

I

Having said that it simply isn't true that there has been no improvement. Two ways of measuring this
1) We are better at punching above our weight with the senior team getting better results than you would expect given our players mediocre club careers. On 442 I did a statistical analysis and no other country I looked at had any where near the gap we had between club and country performance

No other country as effective a t punching above their weight as Aus, given where club players play?

This is compelling that the NC is a decisive factor enabling the Socceroos to play more effectively as a team unit - than the individuals that comprise the team.

We've also borrowed from theDutch Van Gaal school of KNVB, rather than the Cruyff school of KNVB. The team is paramount in the Van Gaal school.

Of course the the Van Gaal school has been augmented by Clarefontane, Spain and Germany in the NC too.

 

[grazorblade]

No other country as effective a t punching above their weight as Aus, given where club players play?

This is compelling that the NC is a decisive factor enabling the Socceroos to play more effectively as a team unit - than the individuals that comprise the team.

We've also borrowed from theDutch Van Gaal school of KNVB, rather than the Cruyff school of KNVB. The team is paramount in the Van Gaal school.

Of course the the Van Gaal school has been augmented by Clarefontane, Spain and Germany in the NC too.

no other country I looked at based on the metric I used comparing minutes at top clubs with NT elo. I should do a more careful analysis comparing club elo weighted by minutes with nt elo at some stage, but since its harder work it might have to be a future roar article