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Match stats/analysis for recent Socceroo games

Quicky said:
I think Decentric was right about the angles of those balls too. Too straight.

I want to see more support in midfield. Two isn't enough. It's sometimes 4 when the wing back push up or the wide forwards back but I feel like in those scenarios it disrupts the build up, that is there aren't the next forward passes.
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In his infinite wisdom, I think Popa instructed his defenders to play those longer straight balls down the flanks, Quicky.

I wonder if his theory was they had less chance of doing any damage if turned over?The turnovers happened often. That Japan had to keep starting their build ups again from their defensive half.
 
Cunningstunt said:
I need to learn more about these type of details. I knew about the futility of straight long balls, but did not know about the importance of the angles on general passing to players under pressure. Something I will try and observe the next match I watch.
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I've had the advantage of the Dutch KNVB Youth Cert ( B and C Licence content) and the Football Aus Tech Dept imparting all this stuff in C Licence and other coaching courses, CS.

In theory In Aus we have evolved to both 4-3-3 defensive and attacking midfield triangles, because there are more inherent triangles and diamonds within the formation to play possession football.

Also, within this formation are more derivatives with inherent triangles/diamonds, are 4-5-1 ( 1:4 midfield), 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3 (flat midfield and diamond shaped midfield).

This is the development formation for youth used in France, Spain, Netherlands and Germany ( 4-2-3-1 in the Germans' case). With a diagonal passing lane, players can receive with a body shape to play forwards, whilst simultaneously being able to scan the field of play to observe where the opposition is. We've imported their coaching practices.

Square balls are great for effective body shape, but the build up doesn't progress forwards.

Ange Postecoglou hates straight balls when he took a workshop in my home state. Only if unmarked straight balls are great to receive and have an effective body position to play forwards.

Popa's 5-2-3. 5-4-1, 3-4-3, also has the inherent triangles and diamonds.

The flat midfield 4-4-2 is considered a good formation for a crossing game when in possession - not a passing game.
 
LFC said:
seriously, all I'm reading in the summary is what we see/saw in the first place.
A B team far far more capable across the park.
Be it pressing putting pressure on our recievers, from out the back to our GK Ryan.
Long balls easily cut out because easy contest and alot of times to no one but their defender to gain control alot with time on their hands.
Gegenpessing been going on for years in many leagues especilly when viewing EPL.
Klopp had LFC doing this 7odd yrs ago and many other teams followed.
Very hard top react when you don't have capable players with ball control and being pressed. Mistakes happen re Roos.
Why balls get cut out/off or just hit upfield with a hope and prayer.
The straightness agree its not a go to and due to lack of runs/angles - and support providing the lanes to angle balls for more supporting runners.
Trouble is Boyle is nothing against better opponents, correct weak, he actually falls over his feet it seems at times.
Borello is a fighter and successful at home but against NT's its whole new ball game, he's 50/50 more times than not a good defender will cover him if not his back up will.
We are not as sharp as the Japanese and when we did get some ball later/game control would you think the Japs backed off their intensity ?
I think they did at times for at least we dug in and having so much ball movement you do get tired especially exposed on counters.

"Japan dominated the first 10 - 15 mins, but at 73 mins"
OMG really,
What does 68.7% possession say compared to 31.3%.
True you need to be effective with any ball you have but they beasted us alot.
Corners 8-1 as well.
Yep they didn't convert - thats their main negative (no one hardly pulled a decent shot) and our hard work being stuck in our own half more than we in theirs for we struggle retaining ball - 68.7% is ball chasing and defending.

Thankfully we are defending better than I expect, Degenek is a new player very happy about this, Circati, well he's a cut above most of our players at such a good age brilliant - future Roo Captain material, a leader.
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I haven't calculated the stats yet, but agree we did have little ball.

Boyle and Morrello defended well from the front.

With our best players off the ball in Ball Possession Opposition, and our best players on the ball in Ball Possession, they would be 2 different teams, LFC. We have few players who would be in both.

Japan are so good ATM, even their current B team is the second best team to play in Asian history.

If we had played our best team of players on the ball all over the pitch, we would have struggled to maintain that defensive discipline for long periods without the ball that Popa's team did.

Both Japan A and B teams have such good players ATM, they are really good on the ball in possession, and very good athletes off the ball, plus are able to play high intensity Full Pressing and Squeezing for sustained periods.

I know gegenpressing has been around for years in UEFA, but when implemented well, despite knowing what it is, it is hard to play against.

I've never seen any teams in Asian history as good as the current Japan A and B teams.

Simon Hill said they haven't lost a WCQ in Asia since 2021! Astonishingly, the Socceroos have accrued 4 points against them in 2 games in this WCQ round. This is a monumental achievement.

Japan didn't convert, because the Aus game plan, meant that they were constantly shooting with Aus defenders in front of them. It was a clever, well-coached strategy. The Aus deep defensive line was effective.

Another facet of play that was good, was Aus dominated 1v1s. Years ago SAF and Gerard Houllier claimed that winning 1v1s for a team, usually leads to team victories.
 
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Popovic adjusted his style of play with wsw after the first two seasons. The first seasons looked like the current socceroos. Defensive shape the priority. After he regenerated the squad into the fourth season he was playing a much more possession based game (relatively).

I hope this is what he aims to do with the socceroos. Sitting back is hard to watch
 
Parking the bus and sitting deep isn’t ingenious fellas but much needed play when you know you won’t have much ball control but sit back and let them come on down.

D quotes this :
Japan didn't convert, because the Aus game plan, meant that they were constantly shooting with Aus defenders in front of them. It was a clever, well-coached strategy. The Aus deep defensive line was effective.

I don’t see much getting behind the defense by an attacking side when your camped in your half deep as.
Clever ? More like that’s the Only option tactic you can play and even LFC struggle against teams playing a low and deep block to sufficate their attack.
 
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Quicky said:
I think Decentric was right about the angles of those balls too. Too straight.

I want to see more support in midfield. Two isn't enough. It's sometimes 4 when the wing back push up or the wide forwards back but I feel like in those scenarios it disrupts the build up, that is there aren't the next forward passes.
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Our midfield 3 in the Germany friendly had it so easy working as a unit. McKay, Millgan and Jedinak would win the ball and then move it around then go to Davidson or Franjic and then ahead. Leckie broke their lines a lot. A good 433 that game.
 
JS96 said:
Our midfield 3 in the Germany friendly had it so easy working as a unit. McKay, Millgan and Jedinak would win the ball and then move it around then go to Davidson or Franjic and then ahead. Leckie broke their lines a lot. A good 433 that game.
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Good point, JS.

I can remember Germany played a very high defensive line in that game. Similar to what Japan played in Perth. There was space to exploit behind their high defensive line and there was a bit in midfield too.

I think it was a friendly and I can't remember G Squeezing us like J did in the Perth WCQ.
 
LFC said:
Parking the bus and sitting deep isn’t ingenious fellas but much needed play when you know you won’t have much ball control but sit back and let them come on down.

D quotes this :
Japan didn't convert, because the Aus game plan, meant that they were constantly shooting with Aus defenders in front of them. It was a clever, well-coached strategy. The Aus deep defensive line was effective.

I don’t see much getting behind the defense by an attacking side when your camped in your half deep as.
Clever ? More like that’s the Only option tactic you can play and even LFC struggle against teams playing a low and deep block to sufficate their attack.
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If it was called parking the bus so be it.

Popa has changed the formation though from Arnie.

It has worked in terms of efficacy and results against the stronger teams. In 4 games against Saudi and Japan in this round of WCQs we earned 8 points with 2 wins and 2 draws. I would much prefer us to play more expansive football and it was hard to watch in terms of us having a decent share of ball.

I prefer it in WCQs to Ange's away tactics in his WCQ tenure. With Popa we also have had more ball against China (both games), Saudi at home and Bahrain away. We had less ball against Indo at home, Japan ( both games) and it looks like Saudi away ( will start on this next).
 
Decentric said:
Good point, JS.

I can remember Germany played a very high defensive line in that game. Similar to what Japan played in Perth. There was space to exploit behind their high defensive line and there was a bit in midfield too.

I think it was a friendly and I can't remember G Squeezing us like J did in the Perth WCQ.
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That was probably the most disappointing aspect of the Japan match. I can't analyse why and how, but I know enough to know if you press like Japan, high up the pitch with that intensity, there have to be gaps/weakness elsewhere. It seemed like the only time we managed to work this out was for the goal.

As I said I hope this is an aspect we will see improvements on moving forward.
 
Cunningstunt said:
Popovic adjusted his style of play with wsw after the first two seasons. The first seasons looked like the current socceroos. Defensive shape the priority. After he regenerated the squad into the fourth season he was playing a much more possession based game (relatively).

I hope this is what he aims to do with the socceroos. Sitting back is hard to watch
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Maybe he will?

We are taught in coaching courses that the foundation of a good team is a strong defence.

However, as Grazor suggests, Popa has different tactics against different teams.
 
Decentric said:
Maybe he will?

We are taught in coaching courses that the foundation of a good team is a strong defence.

However, as Grazor suggests, Popa has different tactics against different teams.
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I recall that season where they played that attractive possession based football they had that Spanish assistant coach I think he's last name was Carasco?

Maybe Popa could him bring back as an assistant for the World Cup if he's available.
 
Just a question for @Decentric - you have explained a lot in your analysis using stats and thank you for that. However, while you may say that the central midfield did not get much ball, how do you account for whether or not the central midfield make themselves available as an outlet to transition to the ball into an offensive phase.
 
Decentric said:
At the 80 min mark the wide Aus defenders started playing diagonal balls into Yazbek and O'Neill to advance the build ups.
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I've just re-watched the match from the Arzani substitution at 80 minutes until the end of the game, and this (a defender playing a ball to Yazbek or O'Neill to advance a build up) happened once. Just once.

So I'm not sure how much credence to put in your analysis.
 
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JS96 said:
Our midfield 3 in the Germany friendly had it so easy working as a unit. McKay, Millgan and Jedinak would win the ball and then move it around then go to Davidson or Franjic and then ahead. Leckie broke their lines a lot. A good 433 that game.
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I would love to see a 4-3-3. Triantis at the base of midfield triangle. So many good options for the advanced CMs.
 
I’ve now finished compiling the stats from watching the replays of both Japan and Saudi games.

I’ve kept in mind a lot of the critical comments from forum members unimpressed with the Socceroo performances in both games. Huddo, LFC, Muz, Keeper, JS96’s live observations certainly have merit.

It was hard going late in the Saudi game. Aus had so little ball, it has been difficult to appraise some of the newer players’ technical ability on the ball, because Aus had so little ball!

The off the ball effort in Ball Possession Opposition was simply fantastic though!

Also, Aus dominated 1 v1 duels in both games, without having to carefully record them. Now I will eventually have data listing every indiv player’s 1v1 results.

Apart from their assists to both goals, by their own standards Butgess and Boyle were quite poor in Saudi. Behich was also mediocre - hope you are reading this, JS!

Boyle is just simply steamrolled off the ball in 1v1s. How is he effective in possibly the most rugged league in the world in Scotland?
 
Decentric said:
I’ve now finished compiling the stats from watching the replays of both Japan and Saudi games.

I’ve kept in mind a lot of the critical comments from forum members unimpressed with the Socceroo performances in both games. Huddo, LFC, Muz, Keeper, JS96’s live observations certainly have merit.

It was hard going late in the Saudi game. Aus had so little ball, it has been difficult to appraise some of the newer players’ technical ability on the ball, because Aus had so little ball!

The off the ball effort in Ball Possession Opposition was simply fantastic though!

Also, Aus dominated 1 v1 duels in both games, without having to carefully record them. Now I will eventually have data listing every indiv player’s 1v1 results.

Apart from their assists to both goals, by their own standards Butgess and Boyle were quite poor in Saudi. Behich was also mediocre - hope you are reading this, JS!

Boyle is just simply steamrolled off the ball in 1v1s. How is he effective in possibly the most rugged league in the world in Scotland?
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It's unfortunate that the final 30min of the Indonesia, Saudi and China games couldn't give us much insight. A lot of trotting and disjointed stuff. I guess that's part of closing out a game. Maybe wins years ago against Uzbekistan or Jordan were of similar play.
 
JS96 said:
It's unfortunate that the final 30min of the Indonesia, Saudi and China games couldn't give us much insight. A lot of trotting and disjointed stuff. I guess that's part of closing out a game. Maybe wins years ago against Uzbekistan or Jordan were of similar play.
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I’ve had a really good look at players’ defensive skills -

- jockeying, showing, delaying;

- tackling, heading, body on body in 1v1s;

- keeping the team unit shape compact without the ball;

- reading of the game with defensive positioning, making intercepts, communication, following team game plans.

It is hard work though! And not that enjoyable!

The huge difference was the Squeezing intensity within teams’ Pressing.

Japan often had 8-9 players in our defensive half when the ball was in our back third and we had the ball. This included their Defensive Transitions.

Saudi Squeezed with 6-8 players in the same main moment/s of play,

It meant we barely had and ‘loose’ players to pass to as we tried to build up from the back.

Indo also did similar.

Frequently, 1-2 opponents sprinted at the Socceroo on the ball, whilst teammates sprinted at Socceroos in close proximity. They condensed space very well.

Conversely, when they had the ball in their defensive half, apart from occasionally having 6 Socceroos in it, most of the time we sat off in a Half Press. The Socceroos barely Squeezed opponents on the ball, keeping the team shape compact as the priority.

Often Bahrain, China, and many other opponents, Half Press us with only 3 players in our Defensive Half trying to turn the ball over. We have easy ball!
 
When I get the strength I’ll put all the stats up with percentages.

I have had a good look at a few new players - because of all the playing back 10second passages of play to determine a 1v1 duel winner, or whether a pass was completed.

Mo Toure - apparently has scored 9 goals this season for Randers in Denmark. Really put himself about against Saudi - being physically strong, using his body well - and - quick over the turf. Not sure if he had any shots or scoring chances, but posed a physical challenge all the time to Saudi CBs.

Would love to hear from G and G posters who’ve seen him play a bit in Denmark.

Circati - if he isn’t already, will soon be our best player. Good on and off the ball.
 
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