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Australian Dual Nationals 🇦🇺🏳️

We should get our players to sign the paperwork declaring for us so we don't need to triple cap them. It seems ridiculous we need to do that when other nations are just getting our guys to sign away their allegiance.
 
Quicky said:
We should get our players to sign the paperwork declaring for us so we don't need to triple cap them. It seems ridiculous we need to do that when other nations are just getting our guys to sign away their allegiance.
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That's not quite how it works. You only sign paperwork when switching. If you have multiple qualifications and have played for one of them you apply to switch under certain conditions. If you haven't played for anyone there is no one to switch from so no paperwork.
 
verrelli said:
Croatia will be doing everything to lure Segecic. Another that Poppa should have already secured. He's already lost Triantis who could have been one of our brightest prospects for the next decade. Honestly, he just takes way too long! I'm just a mug but I've been saying for months to secure these two. We've lost one and it'd be naive to think we're not at risk of losing the other. Not a peep from the media about Triantis slipping through our fingers due to mismanagement. People say they have to want to play for us. Look at the videos of him in his green and gold jersey... he did want to play for us. Ask yourself why that changed and who's at fault.
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I think you are overrating Triantis.

Also, it is hard to argue that Segecic deserved a call up last season. Frankly, he didn't. He does now, I agree. But I can understand a coach not wishing to call up and play a player in a meaningful international simply to make sure they can't "sign" for another nation.

The carrot for players like Segecic is playing in the Euros and the Nations League. That's a tough proposition to turn down for a player with short active career.
 
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Alex M said:
That's not quite how it works. You only sign paperwork when switching. If you have multiple qualifications and have played for one of them you apply to switch under certain conditions. If you haven't played for anyone there is no one to switch from so no paperwork.
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That is really concerning. Why should the process be so much easier for someone to switch, than to cap them initially. That's ridiculous. Also, for a dual national, how does that work? What defines switching?
 
Quicky said:
That is really concerning. Why should the process be so much easier for someone to switch, than to cap them initially. That's ridiculous. Also, for a dual national, how does that work? What defines switching?
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It's not easier to switch. To switch as a dual (or more) citizen by birthright then you first need to have played for one of those nations at some level. Once you've reached a certain level with that nation you can't switch. If you haven't reached that level you can apply to switch (normally once only) It's easier to stay as you don't need to sign anything. Up until the time you first play for a country in official competition you are free to move about. It's been a while since I checked the regs but I think (and feel free to point out if I'm wrong as things seem to change a lot and I'm going from memory) playing for a youth team in official FIFA or AFC competition ties you to a country but doesn't remove your ability to switch. Playing in 3 full A internationals or being selected in a World Cup or Asian Cup finals squad removes your ability to switch.

If you aren't a dual national then switching is much harder and involves not only gaining citizenship of the other country you have to meet residential qualifications as well which I think is 4 years (could be 5?).

There are some other funny rules about children gaining citizenship after emigrating to a new country as a child.
 
JS96 said:
We're broken records on here. A year isn't always a long time so we should've found a squad slot for these lads when we had the final games in the preliminary stage and it would've all been sorted. The managers feared then having more players to please but once the better ones rise it makes for an easy justification.
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A lot of these lads were nowhere near Socceroo selection during the second round of qualification. Back then we were talking about players liker Irankunda who was given game time, Robertson who played a couple of friendlies then was unavailable and Volpato who knocked us back. We did debut a few players during the second round so it's not as if we just stuck rigidly to the World Cup and Asian Cup teams.
 
Alex M said:
It's not easier to switch. To switch as a dual (or more) citizen by birthright then you first need to have played for one of those nations at some level. Once you've reached a certain level with that nation you can't switch. If you haven't reached that level you can apply to switch (normally once only) It's easier to stay as you don't need to sign anything. Up until the time you first play for a country in official competition you are free to move about. It's been a while since I checked the regs but I think (and feel free to point out if I'm wrong as things seem to change a lot and I'm going from memory) playing for a youth team in official FIFA or AFC competition ties you to a country but doesn't remove your ability to switch. Playing in 3 full A internationals or being selected in a World Cup or Asian Cup finals squad removes your ability to switch.

If you aren't a dual national then switching is much harder and involves not only gaining citizenship of the other country you have to meet residential qualifications as well which I think is 4 years (could be 5?).

There are some other funny rules about children gaining citizenship after emigrating to a new country as a child.
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My understanding is that is not just any 3 full A internationals that are needed, but it must be 3 competitive A internationals. So the games must be e.g., World Cup or Asian Cup qualifiers. Friendly internationals do not count towards the 3.
Disclaimer: I may also be incorrect, I am not 100% certain.
 
Alex M said:
It's not easier to switch. To switch as a dual (or more) citizen by birthright then you first need to have played for one of those nations at some level. Once you've reached a certain level with that nation you can't switch. If you haven't reached that level you can apply to switch (normally once only) It's easier to stay as you don't need to sign anything. Up until the time you first play for a country in official competition you are free to move about. It's been a while since I checked the regs but I think (and feel free to point out if I'm wrong as things seem to change a lot and I'm going from memory) playing for a youth team in official FIFA or AFC competition ties you to a country but doesn't remove your ability to switch. Playing in 3 full A internationals or being selected in a World Cup or Asian Cup finals squad removes your ability to switch.

If you aren't a dual national then switching is much harder and involves not only gaining citizenship of the other country you have to meet residential qualifications as well which I think is 4 years (could be 5?).

There are some other funny rules about children gaining citizenship after emigrating to a new country as a child.
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That is harder. Triantis has played at every youth level for Australia. He's been in WCQ squads for the seniors. Yet can sign away his allegiance with out playing any games for Greece. None of the restrictions we're operating under i.e., needing to cap him x3 in A Internationals for the senior squad, or to be in an AC or WC finals squad. I'd love to read the rules again.
 
Quicky said:
That is harder. Triantis has played at every youth level for Australia. He's been in WCQ squads for the seniors. Yet can sign away his allegiance with out playing any games for Greece. None of the restrictions we're operating under i.e., needing to cap him x3 in A Internationals for the senior squad, or to be in an AC or WC finals squad. I'd love to read the rules again.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
Keeper66 said:
My understanding is that is not just any 3 full A internationals that are needed, but it must be 3 competitive A internationals. So the games must be e.g., World Cup or Asian Cup qualifiers. Friendly internationals do not count towards the 3.
Disclaimer: I may also be incorrect, I am not 100% certain.
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I'm pretty sure you're right. Friendlies don't count. We could play Triantis 6 times before the WC and still not be able to tie him, because they're all friendlies. Yet he can sign a form and be sweet to go for Greece. How is that fair.
 
Alex M said:
A lot of these lads were nowhere near Socceroo selection during the second round of qualification. Back then we were talking about players liker Irankunda who was given game time, Robertson who played a couple of friendlies then was unavailable and Volpato who knocked us back. We did debut a few players during the second round so it's not as if we just stuck rigidly to the World Cup and Asian Cup teams.
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As opposed to Okon right now? Even the way Matthews got rushed in shows it can be done.

Segecic and Triantis were the two best at the U20 Asian Cup 12 months prior to those windows. We capped Irankunda and Stama in June and Iredale, Yazbek and Nisbet in March. It would've been prudent to get Triantis and Segecic sorted back then or by now.
 
Frankly Speaking said:
I think you are overrating Triantis.

Also, it is hard to argue that Segecic deserved a call up last season. Frankly, he didn't. He does now, I agree. But I can understand a coach not wishing to call up and play a player in a meaningful international simply to make sure they can't "sign" for another nation.

The carrot for players like Segecic is playing in the Euros and the Nations League. That's a tough proposition to turn down for a player with short active career.
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If clubs buy players with potential at 17, why shouldn't we apply the same principle for the national team? Anyone who excels at U20 national team level and is at risk of playing for another country should be expedited in preliminary rounds especially.

Instead we've capped ridiculous players like Jones, Brattan, Fornaroli and Caceres.
 
Quicky said:
I'm pretty sure you're right. Friendlies don't count. We could play Triantis 6 times before the WC and still not be able to tie him, because they're all friendlies. Yet he can sign a form and be sweet to go for Greece. How is that fair.
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We've really missed the boat. We're stuck in a hole where our next competitive game is the opening WC game. We could've put these matters to rest with smart capping as early as March 2024 and especially with Triantis beinh ahead of Brattan and Segecic ahead of Caceres.
 
JS96 said:
We've really missed the boat. We're stuck in a hole where our next competitive game is the opening WC game. We could've put these matters to rest with smart capping as early as March 2024 and especially with Triantis beinh ahead of Brattan and Segecic ahead of Caceres.
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I don’t remember anyone pushing for Segacic to be capped in March 2024. Happy to be proven wrong though. Not sure there was that much of a push for Triantis back then either.
 
JS96 said:
As opposed to Okon right now? Even the way Matthews got rushed in shows it can be done.

Segecic and Triantis were the two best at the U20 Asian Cup 12 months prior to those windows. We capped Irankunda and Stama in June and Iredale, Yazbek and Nisbet in March. It would've been prudent to get Triantis and Segecic sorted back then or by now.
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What’s with the white text
 
Keeper66 said:
I don’t remember anyone pushing for Segacic to be capped in March 2024. Happy to be proven wrong though. Not sure there was that much of a push for Triantis back then either.
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There wasn't.

All this talk of locking players in is a waste of space. You can't just do one cap any more. Probably to prevent exactly this thing and restricting players representing smaller nations.

Let's say we have 10 guys we're worried about, it's going to take multiple windows to make this happen. The absurdity of every window knowing there will be 2 or 3 late subs getting peoples caps up. Not to mention if we are losing and actually need to make a real substitution. Far better to make national selection to be something players strive for.
 
Keeper66 said:
I don’t remember anyone pushing for Segacic to be capped in March 2024. Happy to be proven wrong though. Not sure there was that much of a push for Triantis back then either.
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There should have been. They'd already excelled for the U20 and both were available. Triantis wasn't very involved at club level so there wouldn't have been a disruption. Segecic was in and out in The Netherlands and a squad inclusion would've put this matter to rest. I don't expect the FA or our coaches to have such foresight however.

These two aren't random young players. They were the best at the U20 Asian Cup and needed Socceroo tying up accordingly.
 
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