Best overseas leagues for Aussies?

[LFC]

As for adding to the thread question in the big picture it’s the quality of the player where he ends up re a league.
If your good enough you end up in the top leagues but you got to prove yourself instead of being loaned out ala what we have seen to date.
That’s the crux of it is plain and simple.
It no matter asking what’s the best league for our hopefuls to go - their ability says where they go by the scouts.

 

[Quicky]

As for adding to the thread question in the big picture it’s the quality of the player where he ends up re a league.
If your good enough you end up in the top leagues but you got to prove yourself instead of being loaned out ala what we have seen to date.
That’s the crux of it is plain and simple.
It no matter asking what’s the best league for our hopefuls to go - their ability says where they go by the scouts.

I'm not convinced that the cream always rises to the top. I think there's big degree of access to opportunity and luck in shaping these things.

Then again maybe I've just read too much Malcolm Gladwell haha.

 

[DandyCasey]

I don't know anywhere Aussies have a reasonable chance at first team development, HNL, Jupiter league, Eredivisie, Romania, Super Lig etc etc
Scandinavian leagues for next tier.

Not wanting to bag any leagues out but the Bundesliga reserve football/4th tier comes to mind in particular as an Aussie graveyard.

 

[JS96]

I don't know anywhere Aussies have a reasonable chance at first team development, HNL, Jupiter league, Eredivisie, Romania, Super Lig etc etc
Scandinavian leagues for next tier.

Not wanting to bag any leagues out but the Bundesliga reserve football/4th tier comes to mind in particular as an Aussie graveyard.

German 4th tier sucks. It's just player hoarding. A bit like Newcastle and Kuol. They got themselves the shiny new thing in case he became good quickly. Add a bit of marketing and the risk from their side is nothing.

Our players need to go to appropriate levels where their club would really hate to see them move on.

 

[LFC]

I'm not convinced that the cream always rises to the top. I think there's big degree of access to opportunity and luck in shaping these things.

Then again maybe I've just read too much Malcolm Gladwell haha.

Good point and no doubt that happens in spades as well.
Though wherever the cream sits in a lesser league the big clubs are watching - your either lucky or you’ve made a statement over time Or tuff luck you’ve missed the boat and carry on like majority do.
Viscous climate Pro sport.

 

[Kitwally]

I was going to say, like for like pretty much, MLS 15 shop comp.
Suit our young fellas - yet I struggle why its hard for young players not having the gas in the tank to play for more games like in EU.
Your a Pro, young fit - doesn't take long getting up to pace, let alone one who really desires making it does alot of extra fitness and ball work in their own time.

D, there isn't many mericans doing it great in EU now, there was a few doing really well in the EPL a while back and right now just 2.
One in Forest as the 2nd GK and midfielder Adams at Bournemouth.
Pulisic ex Chelsea now in SerieA.

Really? A quick google: Christian Pulisic (Chelsea, Premier League), Weston McKennie (Juventus, Serie A), Timothy Weah (AC Milan, Serie A), Yunus Musah (AC Milan, Serie A), Sergino Dest (AC Milan, Serie A), and Tyler Adams (Leeds United, Premier League)

 

[jas88]

The press works from all frontmen and mids - that’s how we won plenty ball in the opponents half - no way was Mane the main presser it worked right across the frontline and backed

yes an organised press is done using the whole team we all know that. It's Sadio's defensive actions(blocks/interceptions) that were significantly higher than his counter part Mo Salah.

Please take some time to review the stats.

Mane double as many blocks and inteceptions as Salah in less time at the club.

Sadio Mané Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com

Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Sadio Mané playing for Senegal men's national team, Liverpool FC and Southampton FC in the Premier League, Champions League and Africa Cup of Nations

fbref.com

Mohamed Salah Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com

Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Mohamed Salah playing for Liverpool FC, Egypt men's national team and AS Roma in the Champions League, Premier League and Africa Cup of Nations

fbref.com

I always thought Liverpool fans under appreciated Mane... and this proves it. Should of just payed him a decent wage.

 

[Decentric]

Agreed. 24 teams is too many, imo. I'd like to see a new league with all the English clubs from Yorkshire and Lancashire north up to the border combine with the Scottish clubs to form new 18 club divisions and reduce England Championship, League One and Two divisions to 20 teams each. So you'd have, for example, Newcastle, Leeds, Celtic, Rangers, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday. Burnley, Boro, Sunderland, Blackburn Rovers, Preston North-End, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Blackpool, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Hull as a possible 18. Still under the control of the SFA but perhaps renamed to British Premier League or Atlantic Super League etc. By my extremely rough calculations, I think there'd still be a slim majority of Scottish clubs throughout the divisions, which FIFA would probably insist on.

A very good idea!

Just can't imagine Northern England separating from Southern England and merging with Scotland though?

 

[Decentric]

Klopp pressing was more intense than Ange.
Mane didn’t burn out
Salah not
Bobby didn’t.

LaLiga has 20 clubs
SerieA 18
EPL 20
These 3 have had these numbers for yonks.
Pre EPL First Div had 22 Clubs from memory.


Throw in 2/3 Cup tournaments.
Overkill only affects the Clubs that go deep into the lot.
Also depends how deep your depth is of the squad.
FIFA are the issue adding more tournaments in the modern world and that mostly effects the top finishing clubs.

I've read former EPL players, who come from other countries, say that the intensity of the EPL is a killer on players' longevity. One was was the well known Spanish CB (?), who played for Barca and Spain, behind Busquets. He said players could last so much longer playing in Spain, because the intensity was lower.

I've also heard Zelco Kalac say the same about the Serie A in Italy and the EPL. The EPL burns players out so much more quickly. This was reinforced by an English player ( whose name escapes me?) who played in the EPL, then Serie A, then back to the EPL. Brett Holman also described the difference in intensity between the EPL and Eredivisie.

 

[Decentric]

EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A and Championship for the top tier of our players.

Jupiler Lig, Eredivisie and Swiss Super League for the next tier. The best places to start. My favourite tier, really interesting leagues and open minded about our guys.

I'm in two minds about whether to add Buli 2 here because its been a mixed bag for our guys in this league but it probably deserves to be there.

Danish Superliga, SPFL and J-League below these but still good. The SPFL gets a bad wrap and I feel this thread is another vehicle for that. It's a league with flaws and strengths but at least they give our guys a go.

Italy and the Balkan leagues I reckon you need heritage there.

Spain and Portugal I hate when our guys go there it almost always ends badly.

The other Euro leagues, K-League, MLS, Saudi Pro League (cringe) are in the mixer with the AL and are acceptable when it fits the player and the stage of their careers or playing qualities.

Good post, Quicky.

I'm pretty sure I read an informative post from you some time ago, stating the Scottish league wasn't that good outside Rangers and Celtic? I also thought you said you watched a lot of Scottish football? Was it somebody else? I have a mate who is a NPL assistant c senior coach, with Scottish origins, who has the same view of Scotland to you.

As you suggest, for some reason our players rarely seem to succeed in Portugal. Yet it is usually a similar ranking to Netherlands, Belgium, and Switzerland, as the top leagues outside the Big Five in UEFA. Our players seem to improve palpably, in this trio of leagues, in the aforementioned list of game based performance criteria, more so than Scotland - unless playing at Celtic or Rangers.

Arnie seems to rate Scotland much higher than Popa.

 

[Fanoffootball]

I was going to say, like for like pretty much, MLS 15 shop comp.
Suit our young fellas - yet I struggle why its hard for young players not having the gas in the tank to play for more games like in EU.
Your a Pro, young fit - doesn't take long getting up to pace, let alone one who really desires making it does alot of extra fitness and ball work in their own time.

D, there isn't many mericans doing it great in EU now, there was a few doing really well in the EPL a while back and right now just 2.
One in Forest as the 2nd GK and midfielder Adams at Bournemouth.
Pulisic ex Chelsea now in SerieA.

I have watched with a bit of interest the offers coming to the Scotland league lads from MLS (devlin rowles) and recently Lachie brook and Bovalina exiting to MLS from A league. I am sure there are other players. I am talking about the MLS and the other second tier not the college system. What are peoples thoughts on the gradual rise in FIFA standing of the MLS?

https://globalfootballrankings.com/ has MLS at 9th in 2024, up from 63rd placing in 2014.

I am also interested to see the impact that the WC 2026 will have on the MLS. The last time the USA hosted (1994) the MLS wasn't even established but has come on quickly since then. Could it be a stepping stone league instead of the 'scotlands' or some of the other leagues (outside of the big five)? i have read that some people view the MLS as an A league on steroids. Could it be an incremental stepping stone.

I am sure this will irk some people simply because of the sporting culture and prestige perpectives.

just putting it out there

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I've read former EPL players, who come from other countries, say that the intensity of the EPL is a killer on players' longevity. One was was the well known Spanish CB (?), who played for Barca and Spain, behind Busquets. He said players could last so much longer playing in Spain, because the intensity was lower.

I've also heard Zelco Kalac say the same about the Serie A in Italy and the EPL. The EPL burns players out so much more quickly. This was reinforced by an English player ( whose name escapes me?) who played in the EPL, then Serie A, then back to the EPL. Brett Holman also described the difference in intensity between the EPL and Eredivisie.

I think this may have been Gascoine...... can't find the quote but remember the quote.... at least I think I do.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I have watched with a bit of interest the offers coming to the Scotland league lads from MLS (devlin rowles) and recently Lachie brook and Bovalina exiting to MLS from A league. I am sure there are other players. I am talking about the MLS and the other second tier not the college system. What are peoples thoughts on the gradual rise in FIFA standing of the MLS?

https://globalfootballrankings.com/ has MLS at 9th in 2024, up from 63rd placing in 2014.

I am also interested to see the impact that the WC 2026 will have on the MLS. The last time the USA hosted (1994) the MLS wasn't even established but has come on quickly since then. Could it be a stepping stone league instead of the 'scotlands' or some of the other leagues (outside of the big five)? i have read that some people view the MLS as an A league on steroids. Could it be an incremental stepping stone.

I am sure this will irk some people simply because of the sporting culture and prestige perpectives.

just putting it out there

MLS WAS established as part of their WC bid conditions in 94' ... Women's World cup in 1999 and then Fox starting to show EPL into the US markets shortly after was what gave US Soccer the "boost" to get the MLS past those fledgling years... what is their next "boost" after 26 though? Not saying you are wrong just dont think they have much further to go in their "evolution"

 

[LFC]

Really? A quick google: Christian Pulisic (Chelsea, Premier League), Weston McKennie (Juventus, Serie A), Timothy Weah (AC Milan, Serie A), Yunus Musah (AC Milan, Serie A), Sergino Dest (AC Milan, Serie A), and Tyler Adams (Leeds United, Premier League)

kw, I was more so focussing on EPL - and you confirmed to me I'm correct there is f all of them in it as I quoted.
Pulisic left season before last
Leeds are not in the EPL - maybe back next season.
SerieA as much as my blood bleeds AZZURI the league has struggled to what it once was if you haven't been keeping up.
You picked up the few more playing in SerieA sorry I neglected this - it confirms again to me after all the years of MLS investment that just those few are in decent leagues AND that they are not to levels of notable ones who made it long before them.
I rate what Tim Howard Freidal as GK's, Donovan, Dempsey even more kudos very much, EPL legends being mericans, Pulisic is the most pure one nowadays, I wish he could have hung on at Chelsea but obviously didn't work out.

In saying that as D mentioned a pop of 380M give or take, come on the EU conversion/going abroad to good leagues (top5) is abysimal for the stats fellas let alone cost per capita.

 

[Barca4life]

Culturally the UK, in terms of style of football Holland and Germany.

I would to see our players try the more technical leagues such as Spain or Portugal.

Do they want to embrace playing in non-speaking English countries is the 64 million dollar question, countries like Japan have no problem with it and even US and Canadian players too.

 

[DandyCasey]

I have watched with a bit of interest the offers coming to the Scotland league lads from MLS (devlin rowles) and recently Lachie brook and Bovalina exiting to MLS from A league. I am sure there are other players. I am talking about the MLS and the other second tier not the college system. What are peoples thoughts on the gradual rise in FIFA standing of the MLS?

https://globalfootballrankings.com/ has MLS at 9th in 2024, up from 63rd placing in 2014.

I am also interested to see the impact that the WC 2026 will have on the MLS. The last time the USA hosted (1994) the MLS wasn't even established but has come on quickly since then. Could it be a stepping stone league instead of the 'scotlands' or some of the other leagues (outside of the big five)? i have read that some people view the MLS as an A league on steroids. Could it be an incremental stepping stone.

I am sure this will irk some people simply because of the sporting culture and prestige perpectives.

just putting it out there

I rate the MLS as a casual viewing neutral. Some very good football played on the deck and yes it's a step up from the A-league.

 

[Pasquali]

I rate the MLS as a casual viewing neutral. Some very good football played on the deck and yes it's a step up from the A-league.

Agreed. I rate it

 

[Quicky]

Good post, Quicky.

I'm pretty sure I read an informative post from you some time ago, stating the Scottish league wasn't that good outside Rangers and Celtic? I also thought you said you watched a lot of Scottish football? Was it somebody else? I have a mate who is a NPL assistant c senior coach, with Scottish origins, who has the same view of Scotland to you.

As you suggest, for some reason our players rarely seem to succeed in Portugal. Yet it is usually a similar ranking to Netherlands, Belgium, and Switzerland, as the top leagues outside the Big Five in UEFA. Our players seem to improve palpably, in this trio of leagues, in the aforementioned list of game based performance criteria, more so than Scotland - unless playing at Celtic or Rangers.

Arnie seems to rate Scotland much higher than Popa.

That wasn't me. I think the SPFL gets a bad wrap. I think it's a league that has flaws that get heavily focussed on. Those criticisms are fair but there's never an acknowledgement of the leagues strengths to balance it.

I think it can be a good league for our players, particularly those with playing qualities that suit it. Players who are physical and have defensive strengths. Scotland is a good league for players that have qualities when the ball is contested. Our strikers have done well there. It provides more games. A shop window to bigger clubs. Different atmospheres. It's a league that's open minded about giving our players meaningful opportunities and experience.

 

[grazorblade]

That wasn't me. I think the SPFL gets a bad wrap. I think it's a league that has flaws that get heavily focussed on. Those criticisms are fair but there's never an acknowledgement of the leagues strengths to balance it.

I think it can be a good league for our players, particularly those with playing qualities that suit it. Players who are physical and have defensive strengths. Scotland is a good league for players that have qualities when the ball is contested. Our strikers have done well there. It provides more games. A shop window to bigger clubs. Different atmospheres. It's a league that's open minded about giving our players meaningful opportunities and experience.

I'm probably the most critical of aussies going to the spfl, but that is of course provisional on what options the players have

 

[dr. bellows]

Interesting you say this, Dr Bellows?

I've known players head off to American unis/colleges on soccer scholarships. They really emphasise physical conditioning in terms of strength, with a high onus on weight training - like gridiron. US football methodology is considered backwards by Europeans and South Americans.

Yet I think the US does better in World Cups than one would expect. I don't have any definitive data on this though?

The fact the US and Mexico ( like Japan verging on being a world powerhouse) have closely fought matches in WCQs, is testament to something being right in the US development. They have 320 million population. This helps.

It is a good question as to how players develop in the MLS compared to far northern Europe, English Lower Leagues and Scotland? Like Australia in the past, the US was renowned as developing football athletes, as opposed to footballers with a high level of skill.

Welcome to the forum too! This is the third or fourth football forum we've participated on together!

Thanks, D.