Choose two left backs for Australia

[WhatAmIWatching]

Mate you can't help yourself. You're tone is usually condescending and patronising. Maybe you shouldn't insult an entire supporter base when you're ignorant of the circumstances of his move, latter playing incidents, and fan feelings and culture.

Your thoughts on Kevin Muscat?

 

[Quicky]

Your thoughts on Kevin Muscat?

In what regard? Do you mean his shenanigans?

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

Just his playing days. As a coach he has proven to be very different from what I expected - generally calm, thoughtful, measured and rarely reactive.

 

[JS96]

I don't want to sound patronising, but maybe their insights into football aren't that great?

Behich is a very good player -and - a very intelligent one. Years ago , individually Davidson was doing well at LB, constantly outmuscling his opponents. But he struggled to fit in with his teammates as a cohesive unit.

Behich has done this seamlessly. At times the chemistry and cohesion amongst Goodwin, Irvine and Behich on the Socceroo left flank, has been tremendous! Well in excess of the individual skill sets of each player. All are highly intelligent players with great game sense.

The only thing that surprises me is how Behich sometimes loses his cool in the AL. I evaluate players as they perform. He has had a long period being at his peak.

The issue with Davidson and Behich was and still is that they get rounded and don't offer the defensive acumen their experience should provide. Behich should be a rock now but he gets rounded, losses tackles and is one step off the pace in the 50/50 duels. His back passing and lack of quality crosses is also an issue.

Bos isn't that good defensively but perhaps his good attacking skills can compensate it.

Had we just picked Elder in 2017 we wouldn't be having these discussions. He's got the best all round package.

 

[Quicky]

Just his playing days. As a coach he has proven to be very different from what I expected - generally calm, thoughtful, measured and rarely reactive.

Love him. A proper cunt. Underrated for his quality. For club and country.

 

[Decentric]

Mate you can't help yourself. You're tone is usually condescending and patronising. Maybe you shouldn't insult an entire supporter base when you're ignorant of the circumstances of his move, latter playing incidents, and fan feelings and culture.

Mate you can't help yourself. You're tone is usually condescending and patronising. Maybe you shouldn't insult an entire supporter base when you're ignorant of the circumstances of his move, latter playing incidents, and fan feelings and culture.

Apologies if it is patronising. That is not my intention at all.

If fans are vilifying an effective player, Behich in this instance, possibly through ignorance, how does one elucidate the strengths they have and go into detail of technical and game sense facets of football performance, plus accompanying empirical statistical data, without appearing condescending?

Often fans are correct in appraisals too. I should comment more when fans' opinions that are positive are backed up by stats and game performance criteria. At the same time, fans can simplistically label players as scapegoats or heroes. There is a lot of 'grey' too. All players have weaknesses and strengths.

 

[Decentric]

The issue with Davidson and Behich was and still is that they get rounded and don't offer the defensive acumen their experience should provide. Behich should be a rock now but he gets rounded, losses tackles and is one step off the pace in the 50/50 duels. His back passing and lack of quality crosses is also an issue.

Bos isn't that good defensively but perhaps his good attacking skills can compensate it.

Had we just picked Elder in 2017 we wouldn't be having these discussions. He's got the best all round package.

Back passing isn't an issue, JS96.

The KNVB dispelled this false notion in Aus as soon as they hit these shores. They absolutely hammered it into local coaches, particularly in the AL seniors and AL youth.

Players pass depending on the movement of players around them. The harder they work and the more effective teammates show for the ball, the easier it is for a player to execute a pass. Most current players will prefer to pass forwards at a diagonal angle, when a viable passing lane is opened.

In terms of being dribbled around the poor old full backs, are in a tough position, to cede wingers not even quite dribbling around them, and , still being able to get an effective cross in. Behich judges better than Bos at his early stage of his career, when to sit tight , or back off players when he is marking and they are receiving. Bos commits more readily.

Must admit I'd never really analysed Behich's quality of crossing? He plays plenty of decent ground passes into pen the box, but may not provide quality aerial crosses that the likes of Goodwin do? You might have raised a very good point. I'll look out for it next time I see Behich play, particularly on the replay.

Bos still wins some tackles when he has decent body shape to challenge, and, he is a better aerial 1v1 duellist than Behich. Bos is a better header of attacking crosses too.

I've never seen Elder play, but I trust the selection criteria used by Popa and Arnie for not selecting him. Having said that, Arnie has selected Villupillay, Geria and Caceres, who have surprisingly been a resounding success. Maybe Elder deserves a chance?

 

[Quicky]

Apologies if it is patronising. That is not my intention at all.

If fans are vilifying an effective player, Behich in this instance, possibly through ignorance, how does one elucidate the strengths they have and go into detail of technical and game sense facets of football performance, plus accompanying empirical statistical data, without appearing condescending?

Often fans are correct in appraisals too. I should comment more when fans' opinions that are positive are backed up by stats and game performance criteria. At the same time, fans can simplistically label players as scapegoats or heroes. There is a lot of 'grey' too. All players have weaknesses and strengths.

Don't make generalisations. You've said of an entire supporter base "their insights into football aren't that great?". I could have said oh you're from Tasmania, your insight into football isn't that great, and that comment would have been just as ridiculous.

 

[Decentric]

The issue with Davidson and Behich was and still is that they get rounded and don't offer the defensive acumen their experience should provide. Behich should be a rock now but he gets rounded, losses tackles and is one step off the pace in the 50/50 duels. His back passing and lack of quality crosses is also an issue.

Bos isn't that good defensively but perhaps his good attacking skills can compensate it.

Had we just picked Elder in 2017 we wouldn't be having these discussions. He's got the best all round package.

Getting back to you on Behich's crossing in the AL derby today. I've watched the replay of an excellent Melbourne derby up to where Arzani has inexplicably been taken off! City would be delighted as he terrorised their defence!

In that time Arzani dribbled around Behich once in a 1v1, beating him all ends up using a right sided body swerve and putting an effective cross into the box for Machach to fluff a good scoring chance. Then again along with Kewell's left sided body swerve, and Arzani's right sided body swerve, they are the two most potent body swerves I've seen by Aussies!

Most of the rest of the time, Behich wasn't challenged where a Vic player ran at him whilst he jockeyed before tackling - although looking at a replay, it might have occurred more often, as Arzani, Machach and Piscopo beat a lot of City defenders 1 v1, by dribbling around them.

Behich avoided those 1v1 duels by positioning himself not to have to commit.

Many of of his other 1v1s were body on body duels and 50/50 tackles where Behich held his own. If any player can hold their own in the rugged A League, they are going to do even better against Asian international opposition.

Behich didn't get forwards as much as he usually does for the Socceroos - and - in the 70ish minutes I've watched, he executed no quality aerial crosses, like Arzani did in this same game, and like Goodwin does for the Soccerooss.

So you might have a point on Behich's aerial crossing, JS96. He doesn't attempt any to date, to evaluate. Whether he is playing under instructions, we don't know? As there might not be a viable City option to win heading duels in the pen box, according to Aurelio Vidmar.

 

[Decentric]

Don't make generalisations. You've said of an entire supporter base "their insights into football aren't that great?". I could have said oh you're from Tasmania, your insight into football isn't that great, and that comment would have been just as ridiculous.

It was a response to another poster who was surprised that Behich has been castigated by many on G and G. I assumed it was based on questions about his performance?

He was booed last night in the derby. Not sure why?

Behich has a decent skillset, and has been selected by successive coaches to be Socceroo LB. Did BVM select Behich too for Russia? If he did, then three successive coaches have selected Behich as Socceroo Left Back. So he must have pretty decent credentials to be selected by three successive Socceroo coaches.

IMO he is a very intelligent player too.

Also, living in Tasmania, under FFS and FA the Technical Department is very nationally oriented compared to the previous era. There is a lot more access to top coaches. They travel a lot more than the past.

 

[Decentric]

Had we just picked Elder in 2017 we wouldn't be having these discussions. He's got the best all round package.

If he has the best all round package, why do you think three successive Socceroo coaches have overlooked him?

It could be argued that Jason Geria might be in the same boat until Popa's tenure.

 

[Keeper66]

Back passing isn't an issue, JS96.

The KNVB dispelled this false notion in Aus as soon as they hit these shores. They absolutely hammered it into local coaches, particularly in the AL seniors and AL youth.

Players pass depending on the movement of players around them. The harder they work and the more effective teammates show for the ball, the easier it is for a player to execute a pass. Most current players will prefer to pass forwards at a diagonal angle, when a viable passing lane is opened.

In terms of being dribbled around the poor old full backs, are in a tough position, to cede wingers not even quite dribbling around them, and , still being able to get an effective cross in. Behich judges better than Bos at his early stage of his career, when to sit tight , or back off players when he is marking and they are receiving. Bos commits more readily.

Must admit I'd never really analysed Behich's quality of crossing? He plays plenty of decent ground passes into pen the box, but may not provide quality aerial crosses that the likes of Goodwin do? You might have raised a very good point. I'll look out for it next time I see Behich play, particularly on the replay.

Bos still wins some tackles when he has decent body shape to challenge, and, he is a better aerial 1v1 duellist than Behich. Bos is a better header of attacking crosses too.

I've never seen Elder play, but I trust the selection criteria used by Popa and Arnie for not selecting him. Having said that, Arnie has selected Villupillay, Geria and Caceres, who have surprisingly been a resounding success. Maybe Elder deserves a chance?

On what basis do you say that Caceres has been a "resounding success"? He has played one full game, where he was maybe serviceable but certainly nothing beyond that, and made a 16 minute substitute appearance in another. And Velupillay, while admittedly looking quite good, has only made three substitute appearances for 54 minutes of total playing time, so it is a bit premature to be calling him a "resounding success" also.

Or maybe your definition of "resounding success" is somewhat different to mine.

 

[Keeper66]

Getting back to you on Behich's crossing in the AL derby today. I've watched the replay of an excellent Melbourne derby up to where Arzani has inexplicably been taken off! City would be delighted as he terrorised their defence!

In that time Arzani dribbled around Behich once in a 1v1, beating him all ends up using a right sided body swerve and putting an effective cross into the box for Machach to fluff a good scoring chance. Then again along with Kewell's left sided body swerve, and Arzani's right sided body swerve, they are the two most potent body swerves I've seen by Aussies!

Most of the rest of the time, Behich wasn't challenged where a Vic player ran at him whilst he jockeyed before tackling - although looking at a replay, it might have occurred more often, as Arzani, Machach and Piscopo beat a lot of City defenders 1 v1, by dribbling around them.

Behich avoided those 1v1 duels by positioning himself not to have to commit.

Many of of his other 1v1s were body on body duels and 50/50 tackles where Behich held his own. If any player can hold their own in the rugged A League, they are going to do even better against Asian international opposition.

Behich didn't get forwards as much as he usually does for the Socceroos - and - in the 70ish minutes I've watched, he executed no quality aerial crosses, like Arzani did in this same game, and like Goodwin does for the Soccerooss.

So you might have a point on Behich's aerial crossing, JS96. He doesn't attempt any to date, to evaluate. Whether he is playing under instructions, we don't know? As there might not be a viable City option to win heading duels in the pen box, according to Aurelio Vidmar.

Being blunt, Behich's aerial crosses for the national team have been generally dogshit for a long time.

 

[grazorblade]

On bos - he started the season injured and has had an interrupted season. I'd expect him to improve soon. Young players tend to improve with age when it comes to duels in any case

I wonder when kasey will be ready. Looks a clone of his older brother!

 

[JS96]

Getting back to you on Behich's crossing in the AL derby today. I've watched the replay of an excellent Melbourne derby up to where Arzani has inexplicably been taken off! City would be delighted as he terrorised their defence!

In that time Arzani dribbled around Behich once in a 1v1, beating him all ends up using a right sided body swerve and putting an effective cross into the box for Machach to fluff a good scoring chance. Then again along with Kewell's left sided body swerve, and Arzani's right sided body swerve, they are the two most potent body swerves I've seen by Aussies!

Most of the rest of the time, Behich wasn't challenged where a Vic player ran at him whilst he jockeyed before tackling - although looking at a replay, it might have occurred more often, as Arzani, Machach and Piscopo beat a lot of City defenders 1 v1, by dribbling around them.

Behich avoided those 1v1 duels by positioning himself not to have to commit.

Many of of his other 1v1s were body on body duels and 50/50 tackles where Behich held his own. If any player can hold their own in the rugged A League, they are going to do even better against Asian international opposition.

Behich didn't get forwards as much as he usually does for the Socceroos - and - in the 70ish minutes I've watched, he executed no quality aerial crosses, like Arzani did in this same game, and like Goodwin does for the Soccerooss.

So you might have a point on Behich's aerial crossing, JS96. He doesn't attempt any to date, to evaluate. Whether he is playing under instructions, we don't know? As there might not be a viable City option to win heading duels in the pen box, according to Aurelio Vidmar.

I think there are times where Behich doesn't have a forward option but his back passing is so automatic that is slows down and potential attack. He'll pin his ears back once to redeem himself. If he were Hayden Matthews, I'd get it due to youth and nerves but this is someone so experienced who doesn't possess smarts.

 

[Decentric]

On what basis do you say that Caceres has been a "resounding success"? He has played one full game, where he was maybe serviceable but certainly nothing beyond that, and made a 16 minute substitute appearance in another. And Velupillay, while admittedly looking quite good, has only made three substitute appearances for 54 minutes of total playing time, so it is a bit premature to be calling him a "resounding success" also.

Or maybe your definition of "resounding success" is somewhat different to mine.

Compiling passing stats and 1v1s, one evaluates players more closely.

Both V and Caceres are new players.

Caceres

* In the Bahrain game and hi s16 min cameo won a lot of tackles and body on body duels - screening the defensive line. Won as many or more than anyone else playing Socceroo DM in the last three games.

* Caceres passed and moved well in tight spaces , keeping possession in tight spaces, rarely coughing the ball up.

* When Socceroos were in possession, Caceres quickly and proactively moved into position to support the ball carrier. If one compares this aspect of play to Hrustic, the current Serie B player did not do this anywhere near as well as Caceres. Ditto Yazbek, but he moves much more proactively to open passing lanes to support the ball carrier than Hrustic.
Players on the ball looked good passing to Caceres, as he was frequently showing early for the ball by opening angled passing lanes to keep the build up progressing forwards. Maybe Brattan had a baptism of fire against Japan in comparison?

* When Bahrain had the ball, Caceres' defensive running/positioning frequently kept the defensive shape compact - and - timed his sprints well to close down space in team Squeezing plans to dispossess a Bah player , or, force them to turn the ball over to a Socceroo teammate.

Villupillay

* Scored against China - when goals were hard to score for Aus.

* Provided defensive impetus from the front of the pitch in forcing turnovers and winning hard balls.

* Effective off the ball running to open passing lanes. When he replaced Hrustic in one game, I think against Saudi, Aus became more effective playing down the right flank.

* V is only 22-23. It is a young age to play international football.

* V has played quite a few balls into the pen box, or has run with the ball/dribbled into the pen box.

Both players seemed to work in well in a team unit, cohesively, both in possession and without the ball.


For new caps, probably what seemed from left field, I consider them a resounding success.

 

[Decentric]

I think there are times where Behich doesn't have a forward option but his back passing is so automatic that is slows down and potential attack. He'll pin his ears back once to redeem himself. If he were Hayden Matthews, I'd get it due to youth and nerves but this is someone so experienced who doesn't possess smarts.

Will have to agree to disagree on that, JS 96.

I think Behich, along with Irvine, Goodwin and Duke, are some of the smartest players we've had. They have fast speed of thought, and have a pretty good idea what to do with the ball, well before they receive it.

The other facet of back passing, and passing side ways, is to induce third man runs - where a team wants to induce an opposition player to close down space, in order for a Socceroo teammate to move into that space to pass the ball to, after the opposition player commits and is hence bi-passed.

 

[Decentric]

On bos - he started the season injured and has had an interrupted season. I'd expect him to improve soon. Young players tend to improve with age when it comes to duels in any case

I wonder when kasey will be ready. Looks a clone of his older brother!

Very impressed with Casey Bos!

 

[Decentric]

Being blunt, Behich's aerial crosses for the national team have been generally dogshit for a long time.

I'm not sure how many he has attempted?

Behich has certainly played a decent supply of ground crosses into the pen box, which are easier for most forwards to shoot effectively from. He has also dribbled/run with the ball into the box, drawing a defender, and passed to a player in a better position to shoot.

Whereas when Aus had Kennedy or/and Cahill as forwards and who were very good headers of the ball, aerial crosses were a useful strategy. Has Behich been under instructions from Popa/Arnie to try and play more balls into the box on the deck?

I feel like I've seen Behich miss a lot of goals over the years though from decent scoring positions. I don't have any data on this though.

 

[JS96]

Will have to agree to disagree on that, JS 96.

I think Behich, along with Irvine, Goodwin and Duke, are some of the smartest players we've had. They have fast speed of thought, and have a pretty good idea what to do with the ball, well before they receive it.

The other facet of back passing, and passing side ways, is to induce third man runs - where a team wants to induce an opposition player to close down space, in order for a Socceroo teammate to move into that space to pass the ball to, after the opposition player commits and is hence bi-passed.

We can agree to disagree. Goodwin is a grade above the other player mentioned in regards to intelligence. On the ball Behich, Duke and Irvine are an indictment to how we should want to play and Bos, Toure and Robertson are who we need in their place to even have a chance at scoring from open play.

The issue is, our players don't run into spaces. We're way too static.