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G&G FC Pod: #16 - Why Australia’s Football System Is Broken (feat. Roger Noll)

Great work again, Grazor!

Women ‘ s soccer in USA more popular with spectators than men!

Wow!

This guy needs to talk to FA about monetary benefits of promo/releg.
 
Roger Noll seems to think a fair bit of revenue will be generated with play off promo/releg knock out games at the end of the season.

He also posits that league admin often can’t see the potential of promo/releg games for revenue.

At the same time Roger was a bit hard to interview. He didn’t quite have solutions like Tom Byer did.
 
Decentric said:
Now I’ve finished the podcast, I’d never considered the implications of Melb Vic, Melb C or SFC being demoted.
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a challenge but a manageable one. Demoted to a second tier is probably a good thing for the ecosystem, demoted to the npl would be a challenge because the npl is 9 leagues. This means winning the league is insufficient to getting promoted to a 2nd tier and clubs would have no control over whether they get promoted and therefore wouldn't have much incentive to invest
You probably need a conference league in the long term to be a buffer between the npl and national leagues, perhaps subsidized by the fa. In the meantime you would probably need to have some protection for clubs with the best academies that they can't drop below the national leagues so you don't discourage clubs from long term investment. Fans would protest, but if the criteria was objective and transparent enough that would mitigate things
 
Decentric said:
Roger Noll seems to think a fair bit of revenue will be generated with play off promo/releg knock out games at the end of the season.

He also posits that league admin often can’t see the potential of promo/releg games for revenue.

At the same time Roger was a bit hard to interview. He didn’t quite have solutions like Tom Byer did.
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I guess the most important solutions were removing minimum standards as a rule (fine to have them as advice) and having a buffer conference league that possibly excludes perth as in the too hard basket.
 
grazorblade said:
a challenge but a manageable one. Demoted to a second tier is probably a good thing for the ecosystem, demoted to the npl would be a challenge because the npl is 9 leagues. This means winning the league is insufficient to getting promoted to a 2nd tier and clubs would have no control over whether they get promoted and therefore wouldn't have much incentive to invest
You probably need a conference league in the long term to be a buffer between the npl and national leagues, perhaps subsidized by the fa. In the meantime you would probably need to have some protection for clubs with the best academies that they can't drop below the national leagues so you don't discourage clubs from long term investment. Fans would protest, but if the criteria was objective and transparent enough that would mitigate things
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🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 FA subsiding private entities money making schemes would be the final nail in the coffin.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Their owners certainly have......
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I haven’t thought about it enough, Mono.

More than ever I want promo /releg whilst I’m still alive. I’m getting long in the tooth. The Aus Cup for the only time in the season activates the entire football community in Aus at the same time. It is fantastic!

I always assume it will be Nix, CCM, Jets, Mac or Western that will be ( a new term for me) who will be the AL Yo Yo teams.
 
Another point Roger N made was a current second tier of 8 separate state/ territory NPLs is far too many clubs.

That we need a smaller second tier.
 
Decentric said:
I haven’t thought about it enough, Mono.

More than ever I want promo /releg whilst I’m still alive. I’m getting long in the tooth. The Aus Cup for the only time in the season activates the entire football community in Aus at the same time. It is fantastic!

I always assume it will be Nix, CCM, Jets, Mac or Western that will be ( a new term for me) who will be the AL Yo Yo teams.
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The cold hard reality is that these franchises dont really exist as clubs outside of their contractual agreements... yes some may have (now) academies and infrastructure, but they are reliant on operating at a scale which requires a certain level of revenue in order to pay for itself.... A Melbourne Victory (as an example), playing in a second division, in front of 200 people wont survive like a one of the NSL clubs did/has .... I have always said I understand the APL protectionism of their "product" I hate it with a passion, but its other peoples money and I understand them wanting to protect their investment.
 
Decentric said:
I haven’t thought about it enough, Mono.

More than ever I want promo /releg whilst I’m still alive. I’m getting long in the tooth. The Aus Cup for the only time in the season activates the entire football community in Aus at the same time. It is fantastic!

I always assume it will be Nix, CCM, Jets, Mac or Western that will be ( a new term for me) who will be the AL Yo Yo teams.
Click to expand...
the effects of p&r are a bit like a super annuation fund, there are costs but the benefits accumulate over time

if those teams become yoyo teams they probably grow. 9 npls make it hard to yoyo, there were only 4 times in the nsl (excluding the era we had a conference league) where a team got promoted the year after they were relegated. Incredibly, even though the promotion and relegation was done in a smoke filled board room rather than by football merit, you still get an average boost to those clubs crowds of 800 per game.
 
grazorblade said:
you would be against a fa travel fund to cover costs in a conference league 3rd division?
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not all , its private investment protectionism I revolt against :)

"In the meantime you would probably need to have some protection for clubs with the best academies that they can't drop below the national leagues so you don't discourage clubs from long term investment."

What about all the NON foreign owned, Australian grassroots club academies? DO they ALSO not get relegated below a certain level? If so , whats the whole point of a meritocracy?
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
The cold hard reality is that these franchises dont really exist as clubs outside of their contractual agreements... yes some may have (now) academies and infrastructure, but they are reliant on operating at a scale which requires a certain level of revenue in order to pay for itself.... A Melbourne Victory (as an example), playing in a second division, in front of 200 people wont survive like a one of the NSL clubs did/has .... I have always said I understand the APL protectionism of their "product" I hate it with a passion, but its other peoples money and I understand them wanting to protect their investment.
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This isn’t like you, Mono!

You are talking a lot of sense!

What have you been smoking? LOL!

In all seriousness good point about the likes of MV struggling to exist playing in tier 2 like NSL clubs have.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
not all , its private investment protectionism I revolt against :)

"In the meantime you would probably need to have some protection for clubs with the best academies that they can't drop below the national leagues so you don't discourage clubs from long term investment."

What about all the NON foreign owned, Australian grassroots club academies? DO they ALSO not get relegated below a certain level? If so , whats the whole point of a meritocracy?
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Well said!
 
seems ol D can learn something everyday as the saying goes :)
Its just not about P/R we fight/scream about its about "inclusion" what football is meant to be in the first place.
You of all labour backing types would get that eh - why are only the rich ones entitled to play a top flight league that should be for any worthy Club striving to play in.
Welcome to our world and drive for the good of game period.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
not all , its private investment protectionism I revolt against :)

"In the meantime you would probably need to have some protection for clubs with the best academies that they can't drop below the national leagues so you don't discourage clubs from long term investment."

What about all the NON foreign owned, Australian grassroots club academies? DO they ALSO not get relegated below a certain level? If so , whats the whole point of a meritocracy?
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yep if the criteria was transparent and a grassroots club met it then yes. The point is to prevent long term investment which would be discouraged if you don't have a buffer conference league (or some other solution to the problem). Who cares who is doing the long term investment

You could also just expand the league in seasons where a protected team gets relegated and then when enough teams meet a threshold in their academies get rid of the protections
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
The cold hard reality is that these franchises dont really exist as clubs outside of their contractual agreements... yes some may have (now) academies and infrastructure, but they are reliant on operating at a scale which requires a certain level of revenue in order to pay for itself.... A Melbourne Victory (as an example), playing in a second division, in front of 200 people wont survive like a one of the NSL clubs did/has .... I have always said I understand the APL protectionism of their "product" I hate it with a passion, but its other peoples money and I understand them wanting to protect their investment.
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I'd be amazed if they dropped to just 200 in an nst

state league sure, but they probably keep a big chunk of their crowd in an nst imo
 
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