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G&G FC Podcast: #14 – Tom Byer on Japan's Football Revolution

I took my 3yo down the beach yesterday and had another kick around. He wasn't that interested in the exercises. Was more interested in kicking the ball and throwing rocks in the ocean. Beautiful day, turquoise water, football with my boy and chips for lunch. I'm a lucky man.
 
Half way through. The delivery here is like Football Australia is a man whose wife has left him and he's so oblivious to the obvious.

So many mistakes in the past with idiots at the helm. To think Byer had a presence in Australia there must have been conversations, observations and comments to someone somewhere that implementing even a couple of ideas from Japan would've been prudent.
 
I think a lot of people see a nation's football development is the means to win a world cup. I guess that is the ultimate goal. However, winning other tournaments, having a solid league and being strong in your own confederation is also a positive. In turn, the benefits to society as a whole through the success of a sport makes the who system be something of a good corporate citizen.
 
This isn't a dig but it's interesting to note that despite Japan's leaps and bounds, they haven't won an Asian Cup since 2011 and have only ever gone as far as the round of 16, ranking 9th 3 times. Indeed the they should have held on against Belgium in 2018 and 2022 was due to a shit penalty shootout. Yet their 2011 Asian Cup win was against the better team. Australia missed immense chances.

Tournaments are therefore not necessarily the indicator of the best team at the given time but winning gives that badge of honour.

What I often think of is Australia's football is in such a shit condition at times but they still have some relative achievement. You then look at Germany and Italy the last 10 years and England since forever and their ROI is abysmal. In a way the former is less stressful and you're not always scratching your head. France and Spain meanwhile have delivered well the past 12 years after their 2010 debacle.

Before their titles, Spain were something like Japan are now. Their victories will come. You may not get it right on the day.
 
All in all I guess there are some players who are an exception to the rule such as Mooy? Our quantity of quality has been very low for a longer time.

Hearing a lot of this makes me understand why Germany has seen issues creep in too. The systems are in cycles. Their post Euro 2004 reforms have cracked and now they'll need to look at others ways.
 
Could you imagine the AFL lobbying and protesting if the government helped fund and promote some national football play time akin to Japan in, say, schools and communities?

Councils are another issue but I say open up the fields and throw the balls on the grass and have the kids play.

The USA is the correct example for basketball given their courts and college system. I wonder when they consider the age for development is and if coaching at high school level makes much of a difference?
 
I think a lot of people see a nation's football development is the means to win a world cup. I guess that is the ultimate goal. However, winning other tournaments, having a solid league and being strong in your own confederation is also a positive. In turn, the benefits to society as a whole through the success of a sport makes the who system be something of a good corporate citizen.
Yeah probably most of football australias priorities are to make the best elite players

Ironically if we spent the last half century focusing on the grassroots we probably have a participation rate of 3 million and all other issues get at least mitigated
 
This isn't a dig but it's interesting to note that despite Japan's leaps and bounds, they haven't won an Asian Cup since 2011 and have only ever gone as far as the round of 16, ranking 9th 3 times. Indeed the they should have held on against Belgium in 2018 and 2022 was due to a shit penalty shootout. Yet their 2011 Asian Cup win was against the better team. Australia missed immense chances.

Tournaments are therefore not necessarily the indicator of the best team at the given time but winning gives that badge of honour.

What I often think of is Australia's football is in such a shit condition at times but they still have some relative achievement. You then look at Germany and Italy the last 10 years and England since forever and their ROI is abysmal. In a way the former is less stressful and you're not always scratching your head. France and Spain meanwhile have delivered well the past 12 years after their 2010 debacle.

Before their titles, Spain were something like Japan are now. Their victories will come. You may not get it right on the day.
Japan are technically as good as any team outside south america, even as good as the powerhouses

I still think they are tactically and physically behind
 
Could you imagine the AFL lobbying and protesting if the government helped fund and promote some national football play time akin to Japan in, say, schools and communities?

Councils are another issue but I say open up the fields and throw the balls on the grass and have the kids play.

The USA is the correct example for basketball given their courts and college system. I wonder when they consider the age for development is and if coaching at high school level makes much of a difference?
They probably would but we should at least try 1 day care at a time
 
Japan are technically as good as any team outside south america, even as good as the powerhouses

I still think they are tactically and physically behind
Can happen to anyone and probably just law of averages but the opening game of the two WC qualifying campaigns before the most recent, UAE 2015, Belgium 2018, Costa Rica 2022 and even to an extent the last game in Japan against Australia show they may have a hard time becoming unstuck.

I remember on here post Costa Rica the game being describe as Japan as you could be which seems many people feel there is something there. They're always getting better though.
 
Can happen to anyone and probably just law of averages but the opening game of the two WC qualifying campaigns before the most recent, UAE 2015, Belgium 2018, Costa Rica 2022 and even to an extent the last game in Japan against Australia show they may have a hard time becoming unstuck.

I remember on here post Costa Rica the game being describe as Japan as you could be which seems many people feel there is something there. They're always getting better though.
On paper they are incredible

For us aussies abroad conniseurs it would be great to have a successful national team and roos playing well at a high level. Means exciting high level games all year round. Apart ftom a brief period in 06 we havent had both happen at the dame time
 
On paper they are incredible

For us aussies abroad conniseurs it would be great to have a successful national team and roos playing well at a high level. Means exciting high level games all year round. Apart ftom a brief period in 06 we havent had both happen at the dame time
Sunday morning sports world on 7 you'd have the EPL results and Kewell, Viduka, Bosnich, Emerton, Lazaridis would be mentioned among others.
 
Sunday morning sports world on 7 you'd have the EPL results and Kewell, Viduka, Bosnich, Emerton, Lazaridis would be mentioned among others.
Gee i miss that. I suspect we can get players emerton and lazaridis quality, but kewell and viduka quality seems beyond us in the near future.
 
Tom Byer is part of the Coerver franshise. Or has been. So he is likely to talk it up.

I was in contact with Jason Lanscar, Head of Aus Coerver some time ago to bring Coerver to this state. At one stage I was going to do a Coerver course with a few other 442 posters in Melb. At the same time I was convinced by the Football Aus head SAP coach in this state, that the NC was a combination of Coerver type skills, which is strictly a skills based program, devoid of any game sense - and - realistic game sense too. Both skills and game sense in the one.

Tom B to his credit, stated that he advanced that the great Japanese steps forward were mainly to do with Coerver implementation in Japan, but if one spoke to the Japanese Football Fed, or the clubs, they would contend it was based on the Fed organisation structure, or the clubs' programs, with 60 odd pro clubs.

Tom B didn't mention it, but Japan also has a high number of trained semi- pro and pro coaches in Japan. This also helps.

When I did the KNVB years ago, Ad Derkson and Arnie Schans, emphatically stated that Japanese players were very skilful with the ball, but the skill declined as soon as they were put in game realistic scenarios. Schans had coached in Japan for a decent period.

Tom Byer stated that Harry Kewell was a Coerver gradate. HK denies this. However, Tom Rogic and Terry Antonis were Coerver trained. Tom B also talked about the better technical players like Culina in Kewell's era. In that era the GG had Dukes and Bresc as 2 other good technicians.

Ostensibly, Tom Byer knows the underage coaches in Aus, better than the underage players coming through from U23 and younger. Players like Bos brothers, Valadon, Milanovic, Villupillay, Irankunda, Okon Jr, Segecic, Bozinovski, Teague, Jake Hollman, Quintal, Deli, Youlley look good compared to better Asian international opposition of their peers - technically.

I think it is both Quicky and Huddo, who've said that some of these young players haven't been evaluated playing against senior pros. Good point.

However, Villupillay, Teague, Bos brothers, Valadon, Bozinovski, Segecic, Irankunda, and Jake Hollman have.

In support of Tom B, and he made some excellent points, the 10-13 yo phase for key learning is true in terms of game sense and technique in the NC. But he makes the point that technique should be acquired earlier.

The Aus NC focuses on kids enjoying football in structured SSGs with some funny formation progressions for 7 and 9 a side on the way to 11 a side at age 12. The Brazilians go straight from 4v4 or 5v5 with keepers, to 11 v 11 at age 12-13 instead.

I like the fact coaches visit Japanese schools once per week to work with all kids, not focusing on identified elite from an early age in Aus. It is a compelling point. A lot of kids drop out for a diversity of reasons. I totally agree with Tom B that Aus needs to improve all young football players, not just an elite identified at an early age.

From my teaching background and knowledge of Piaget's Child Development theories, kids develop slowly and quickly at different ages. One size doesn't fit all. The NC is too prescriptive.

Another issue though is Tom B claiming it is ideal coaching kids from age 2-6, is very, very young. I've taught age 4-5 a lot in Kindergarten as a professional early childhood teacher. In the Kindergarten Development Check a lot of kids are still learning to hop on both feet at this age. They really are babies in terms of physical development.

However, ages 7-9 are terrific for football skills acquisition.

There are a few factors that support Tom B.

1. I've seen videos of really young kids on FB playing really good team football. I can't tell what age, but it appears to be about somewhere between 7-9. Im surmising they may be South American. The skills and team play are fantastic! I didn't think it was possible until viewing a few videos like this . All kids on the pitch were of similar calibre.

2. Where Tom B speaks from strength is the fantastic quality of the senior Japanese footballers. Even though Aus was very lucky to accrue 4 points from 2 games against Japan A and Japan B, both teams were incredible from a technical perspective in the last round of WCQs. I was in awe of both teams!

Moreover, Tom B states how many Japanese players are recruited to Big Five leagues, or the 30-40 top clubs who play in lower status leagues. It is a compelling point.

Where Tom B might fall down a bit, is that the Aus underage teams have improved technically compared to the better Asian opponents. This is the case with Japanese underage teams relative to the Aussies who've now had 10 years of training in the newer Aus methodology ( a word used by most trained coaches, not just me, with Tom B using it frequently).
 
Tom Byer is part of the Coerver franshise. Or has been. So he is likely to talk it up.

I was in contact with Jason Lanscar, Head of Aus Coerver some time ago to bring Coerver to this state. At one stage I was going to do a Coerver course with a few other 442 posters in Melb. At the same time I was convinced by the Football Aus head SAP coach in this state, that the NC was a combination of Coerver type skills, which is strictly a skills based program, devoid of any game sense - and - realistic game sense too. Both skills and game sense in the one.
Interestingly Ron Smith's twitter has had plenty of posts this year about the need for some isolated training away from a game realistic scenario. He claims you need both because some techniques you learn slower if you don't have an initial period of isolated training.
 
Tom B to his credit, stated that he advanced that the great Japanese steps forward were mainly to do with Coerver implementation in Japan, but if one spoke to the Japanese Football Fed, or the clubs, they would contend it was based on the Fed organisation structure, or the clubs' programs, with 60 odd pro clubs.
I definitely expect the club structure to matter quite a bit. If you could produce world class players just with better coaching methods you could turn america samoa into a super power!
 
Tom Byer stated that Harry Kewell was a Coerver gradate. HK denies this. However, Tom Rogic and Terry Antonis were Coerver trained. Tom B also talked about the better technical players like Culina in Kewell's era. In that era the GG had Dukes and Bresc as 2 other good technicians.
That was interesting tid bit about kewell. Do you know where he denies it?
 
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