Things we would like to see in season 25/26

[Frankly Speaking]

Saving the world, starting this coming season:

To me Promotion at this stage is the key thing missing - not relegation.

We do not have enough teams yet in the aleague and we still have all the clubs who paid big money to get in and stay in. Coming last out of 13 is bad, but it is still nowhere near coming last out of 18, 19, 20 or whatever.

I would like to see merit based expansion (highest non-aleague Australia Cup team with play off if equal level for the next few years) on top of invitation to bring in those states and territories (countries?) who are not represented yet.

By making it Australia Cup based promotion we are excluding any more NZ teams from entering by Promotion. I don't have a problem with that but some will. Seems appropriate to me that our national competition is populated/refreshed by our national winners.

Forget crowd numbers!

Reimbursing a decent part of legacy licence fees and dropping the cost of new licence fees significantly (with an enforceable commitment to spend a minimum on club upgrades/facilities/support staff) will allow smaller teams to get in if they have won the right or are invited representatives.

Run that way for 3 years at least and we can be sitting on 20 teams.

Keep that for 2 more years so the newest teams have a chance at establishing themselves then bring in relegation. Lowest team or two get relegated, with the best of the Australia Cup teams promoted. Reward and Punishment all tied up. 5 year plan. Done.

Existing clubs have 5 years to plan for relegation and potential loss of their aleague notice. Newer ones come in knowing that is the future.

Stage 1 - this season plan and announce the 5 year plan with a start date (to keep it in line with the thread title).

Great post. SFA chance of happening. Way too logical. APL don't do logic. Nor do they do competence.

 

[Spartan Warrior]

Pro/Rel

 

[CentreHalf]

Saving the world, starting this coming season:

To me Promotion at this stage is the key thing missing - not relegation.

We do not have enough teams yet in the aleague and we still have all the clubs who paid big money to get in and stay in. Coming last out of 13 is bad, but it is still nowhere near coming last out of 18, 19, 20 or whatever.

I would like to see merit based expansion (highest non-aleague Australia Cup team with play off if equal level for the next few years) on top of invitation to bring in those states and territories (countries?) who are not represented yet.

By making it Australia Cup based promotion we are excluding any more NZ teams from entering by Promotion. I don't have a problem with that but some will. Seems appropriate to me that our national competition is populated/refreshed by our national winners.

Forget crowd numbers!

Reimbursing a decent part of legacy licence fees and dropping the cost of new licence fees significantly (with an enforceable commitment to spend a minimum on club upgrades/facilities/support staff) will allow smaller teams to get in if they have won the right or are invited representatives.

Run that way for 3 years at least and we can be sitting on 20 teams.

Keep that for 2 more years so the newest teams have a chance at establishing themselves then bring in relegation. Lowest team or two get relegated, with the best of the Australia Cup teams promoted. Reward and Punishment all tied up. 5 year plan. Done.

Existing clubs have 5 years to plan for relegation and potential loss of their aleague notice. Newer ones come in knowing that is the future.

Stage 1 - this season plan and announce the 5 year plan with a start date (to keep it in line with the thread title).

Like the post, but to play devils advocate for a moment, theres a couple of things to raise.

The best team in Victoria outside the A-league is Avondale. No disrespect to them, but what do they add to the top tier professional competition in this country? They barely have an NPL level venue.

You can't "forget crowd numbers" We keep getting told football is the most participated sport in the country. Each and every club needs to convert these participants into fans to make this league sustainable.

In a 20 team comp is the expectation to play 38 games? Theres no room in the calendar for that, and to be honest the fans wont show up to that many games.

I like what you are saying in terms of expanding the league before relegation comes in, but there are better ways.

The A-league should be monitoring Tasmania and the circus around the AFL stadium, and jumping in their grave immediately if the AFL team falls over.

Another QLD team is also a must. Theres your 15. Thats the magical number for me. Play everyone twice. 28 games.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

A group of 3 teams? Lol.

Your fate was decided by 2 leg matches.

You may LOL all you like, but most European groups were only three teams in the seventies. BTW, England failed to qualify in1974&1978, from three team groups.

 

[RIMB]

Like the post, but to play devils advocate for a moment, theres a couple of things to raise.

The best team in Victoria outside the A-league is Avondale. No disrespect to them, but what do they add to the top tier professional competition in this country? They barely have an NPL level venue.

You can't "forget crowd numbers" We keep getting told football is the most participated sport in the country. Each and every club needs to convert these participants into fans to make this league sustainable.

In a 20 team comp is the expectation to play 38 games? Theres no room in the calendar for that, and to be honest the fans wont show up to that many games.

I like what you are saying in terms of expanding the league before relegation comes in, but there are better ways.

The A-league should be monitoring Tasmania and the circus around the AFL stadium, and jumping in their grave immediately if the AFL team falls over.

Another QLD team is also a must. Theres your 15. Thats the magical number for me. Play everyone twice. 28 games.

I take your points.

Bringing in an Avondale is exactly the point of promotion to me. It is not about who should be there in business terms - it is about who earned the right to be there.

My concern with choosing teams through the NPL is that you have each State/Territory's own NPL - so we would need a playoff comp for promotion out of all the NPL comps. Would Avondale be the best in the whole APL (or NST)? Surely not, but they would have a chance to prove that they were.

Those 'lower' teams would also have the same chance as any lower league team in any country to upgrade their side on winning promotion. If they don't or can't do that they will just go back down the following season when relegation also comes in. They will have had their moment in the sun though.

For the 20 team scenario, fair enough on the calendar. The money in the squads would need to cover more players if we had more games and maybe that is not an option. If we are talking eventual relegation of only one team we can get away with less teams in it. I liked the safety for my aleague club in having 19 other teams that would have to be better in any season before we dropped - perhaps that is slanted too heavily in favour of staying up given multiple teams get relegated in other 20 team comps.

I would prefer 16 teams to your 15 just so there is no Bye round though. 30 rounds instead of 28.

I want Tassie and the ACT to have teams and I wish we had a second Qld team in. That makes 16. NT is a puzzle for me - we have the Australia Cup playoffs there and it is stinking hot/humid so away games to the NT would be unhealthy as things stand.

When I say forget the crowds, I don't care if a team only brings in a small number of supporters to games. Each team has the chance, the need and the responsibility to build their attendance and support base for financial reasons but having crowds as a factor for joining is wrong. It should be about the football. I don't care if we have 2-3k crowds in the ACT. Making the competition truly national as a starting point is important to me. Relegation will weed out unsustainable clubs one by one.

The advantage of promoting sides rather than always selecting clubs to expand is that it sets the scene for relegation over time after first introducing a reward for playing well.

Soapbox Corner
The Rabbit (Sink) Hole of Perpetual Doom:
It seems to me the one overriding factor against earned promotion is the nationalistic/ethnic team issue that has to be buried once and for all or we can never go P/R. It is an issue that has had much discussion over a long period, and it cannot be ignored. 'Public fear and perception' of potential games like Brisbane Israelites v Perth Palestinians, which in the minds of the public turn the positive celebration of cultures into fear of political and historical warzones, is a real fear.

I am saddened by the fact that it may remain a stumbling block longer than I will live, but every single sokkah incident in any country where race or ethnicity is perceived to have lead to violence or riotous behaviour and hatred will extend the resistance to inclusion and P/R. Those who use football as their bandwagon for violent agenda will keep us in the dark. All mainstream media has to say is "See..." and we are gone again.

My only hope for P/R is that the administration will see that the vanilla geographic dreams of football acceptance is not the answer and that it is the self-sustaining stigma of football and organised resistance against its growth that limits the sport rather than the ethnicity of community clubs.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Like the post, but to play devils advocate for a moment, theres a couple of things to raise.

The best team in Victoria outside the A-league is Avondale. No disrespect to them, but what do they add to the top tier professional competition in this country? They barely have an NPL level venue.

Do you think this would be the same if the other NPL teams around the country actually had a viable path to compete for positions in a national league AND then exposure to confederation cups and or club world cups past that? Avondale is a passion project for a wealthy sponsor willing to throw money at a Galacticos style, best of the NPL players, squad for their amusement...

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I take your points.

Bringing in an Avondale is exactly the point of promotion to me. It is not about who should be there in business terms - it is about who earned the right to be there.

My concern with choosing teams through the NPL is that you have each State/Territory's own NPL - so we would need a playoff comp for promotion out of all the NPL comps. Would Avondale be the best in the whole APL (or NST)? Surely not, but they would have a chance to prove that they were.

Those 'lower' teams would also have the same chance as any lower league team in any country to upgrade their side on winning promotion. If they don't or can't do that they will just go back down the following season when relegation also comes in. They will have had their moment in the sun though.

For the 20 team scenario, fair enough on the calendar. The money in the squads would need to cover more players if we had more games and maybe that is not an option. If we are talking eventual relegation of only one team we can get away with less teams in it. I liked the safety for my aleague club in having 19 other teams that would have to be better in any season before we dropped - perhaps that is slanted too heavily in favour of staying up given multiple teams get relegated in other 20 team comps.

I would prefer 16 teams to your 15 just so there is no Bye round though. 30 rounds instead of 28.

I want Tassie and the ACT to have teams and I wish we had a second Qld team in. That makes 16. NT is a puzzle for me - we have the Australia Cup playoffs there and it is stinking hot/humid so away games to the NT would be unhealthy as things stand.

When I say forget the crowds, I don't care if a team only brings in a small number of supporters to games. Each team has the chance, the need and the responsibility to build their attendance and support base for financial reasons but having crowds as a factor for joining is wrong. It should be about the football. I don't care if we have 2-3k crowds in the ACT. Making the competition truly national as a starting point is important to me. Relegation will weed out unsustainable clubs one by one.

The advantage of promoting sides rather than always selecting clubs to expand is that it sets the scene for relegation over time after first introducing a reward for playing well.

Soapbox Corner
The Rabbit (Sink) Hole of Perpetual Doom:
It seems to me the one overriding factor against earned promotion is the nationalistic/ethnic team issue that has to be buried once and for all or we can never go P/R. It is an issue that has had much discussion over a long period, and it cannot be ignored. 'Public fear and perception' of potential games like Brisbane Israelites v Perth Palestinians, which in the minds of the public turn the positive celebration of cultures into fear of political and historical warzones, is a real fear.

I am saddened by the fact that it may remain a stumbling block longer than I will live, but every single sokkah incident in any country where race or ethnicity is perceived to have lead to violence or riotous behaviour and hatred will extend the resistance to inclusion and P/R. Those who use football as their bandwagon for violent agenda will keep us in the dark. All mainstream media has to say is "See..." and we are gone again.

My only hope for P/R is that the administration will see that the vanilla geographic dreams of football acceptance is not the answer and that it is the self-sustaining stigma of football and organised resistance against its growth that limits the sport rather than the ethnicity of community clubs.

Don't worry mate, any "effnikz tensions" will be addressed by the Melbourne Victory supporters group making a facebook statement in solidarity with their ultras brother in arms.

 

[BA81]

Do you think this would be the same if the other NPL teams around the country actually had a viable path to compete for positions in a national league AND then exposure to confederation cups and or club world cups past that? Avondale is a passion project for a wealthy sponsor willing to throw money at a Galacticos style, best of the NPL players, squad for their amusement...

x2. Furthermore, what exactly did Macarthur and Western United(initially, at least) bring to the league other than cannibalisation of existing ALM sides’ fanbases?

 

[BA81]

I take your points.

Bringing in an Avondale is exactly the point of promotion to me. It is not about who should be there in business terms - it is about who earned the right to be there.

My concern with choosing teams through the NPL is that you have each State/Territory's own NPL - so we would need a playoff comp for promotion out of all the NPL comps. Would Avondale be the best in the whole APL (or NST)? Surely not, but they would have a chance to prove that they were.

Those 'lower' teams would also have the same chance as any lower league team in any country to upgrade their side on winning promotion. If they don't or can't do that they will just go back down the following season when relegation also comes in. They will have had their moment in the sun though.

For the 20 team scenario, fair enough on the calendar. The money in the squads would need to cover more players if we had more games and maybe that is not an option. If we are talking eventual relegation of only one team we can get away with less teams in it. I liked the safety for my aleague club in having 19 other teams that would have to be better in any season before we dropped - perhaps that is slanted too heavily in favour of staying up given multiple teams get relegated in other 20 team comps.

I would prefer 16 teams to your 15 just so there is no Bye round though. 30 rounds instead of 28.

I want Tassie and the ACT to have teams and I wish we had a second Qld team in. That makes 16. NT is a puzzle for me - we have the Australia Cup playoffs there and it is stinking hot/humid so away games to the NT would be unhealthy as things stand.

When I say forget the crowds, I don't care if a team only brings in a small number of supporters to games. Each team has the chance, the need and the responsibility to build their attendance and support base for financial reasons but having crowds as a factor for joining is wrong. It should be about the football. I don't care if we have 2-3k crowds in the ACT. Making the competition truly national as a starting point is important to me. Relegation will weed out unsustainable clubs one by one.

The advantage of promoting sides rather than always selecting clubs to expand is that it sets the scene for relegation over time after first introducing a reward for playing well.

Soapbox Corner
The Rabbit (Sink) Hole of Perpetual Doom:
It seems to me the one overriding factor against earned promotion is the nationalistic/ethnic team issue that has to be buried once and for all or we can never go P/R. It is an issue that has had much discussion over a long period, and it cannot be ignored. 'Public fear and perception' of potential games like Brisbane Israelites v Perth Palestinians, which in the minds of the public turn the positive celebration of cultures into fear of political and historical warzones, is a real fear.

I am saddened by the fact that it may remain a stumbling block longer than I will live, but every single sokkah incident in any country where race or ethnicity is perceived to have lead to violence or riotous behaviour and hatred will extend the resistance to inclusion and P/R. Those who use football as their bandwagon for violent agenda will keep us in the dark. All mainstream media has to say is "See..." and we are gone again.

My only hope for P/R is that the administration will see that the vanilla geographic dreams of football acceptance is not the answer and that it is the self-sustaining stigma of football and organised resistance against its growth that limits the sport rather than the ethnicity of community clubs.

As long as the administrators continue persisting w/Frank Lowy & John O’Neill’s playbook from 20 years ago, no chance. And even though I concede she won’t be at the helm for long, I’ve zero confidence in Heather Garriock being the one to commence the process of ending said MO.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

x2. Furthermore, what exactly did Macarthur and Western United(initially, at least) bring to the league other than cannibalisation of existing ALM sides’ fanbases?

In all fairness, didnt Melbourne Victory cannibalise the NSL clubs fanbase to begin with?.. Who were the Adelaide United fans initial fans if not Western Adelaide and Juve supporters? Even Glory, when they first stared, took fans way from their state league clubs... its the nature of the beast....

Give the clubs a reason to be ambitious and some healthy exposure to a potential fanbase and let them sort themselves out is my point.... and I think RIMBs ?

 

[BA81]

In all fairness, didnt Melbourne Victory cannibalise the NSL clubs fanbase to begin with?.. Who were the Adelaide United fans initial fans if not Western Adelaide and Juve supporters? Even Glory, when they first stared, took fans way from their state league clubs... its the nature of the beast....

Give the clubs a reason to be ambitious and some healthy exposure to a potential fanbase and let them sort themselves out is my point.... and I think RIMBs ?

Fair enough. I just don’t like Macarthur and WU

 

[RIMB]

Give the clubs a reason to be ambitious and some healthy exposure to a potential fanbase and let them sort themselves out is my point.... and I think RIMBs ?

Yep, that's it Mono.

Reward/opportunity and see where it leads. Up to the clubs to then seize the moment and grow or not.

 

[LFC]

Yep, that's it Mono.

Reward/opportunity and see where it leads. Up to the clubs to then seize the moment and grow or not.

and thats what we > you know us with wide open eyes < have kept on persisting for quite sometime and get shut down or banted over the same ol same ol about the semi pros.
Nothing changes last 20+yrs and here we are still getting no where really.
OK the Championship has been forwarded but ?
and as BA81 mentions Garriock whilst she's interim for how long I don't have much faith ATM looking ahead for the big picture of the game that has had to fend for itself for so long and also Feds who have been their own worst enemies.

 

[CentreHalf]

I take your points.

Bringing in an Avondale is exactly the point of promotion to me. It is not about who should be there in business terms - it is about who earned the right to be there.

My concern with choosing teams through the NPL is that you have each State/Territory's own NPL - so we would need a playoff comp for promotion out of all the NPL comps. Would Avondale be the best in the whole APL (or NST)? Surely not, but they would have a chance to prove that they were.

Those 'lower' teams would also have the same chance as any lower league team in any country to upgrade their side on winning promotion. If they don't or can't do that they will just go back down the following season when relegation also comes in. They will have had their moment in the sun though.

For the 20 team scenario, fair enough on the calendar. The money in the squads would need to cover more players if we had more games and maybe that is not an option. If we are talking eventual relegation of only one team we can get away with less teams in it. I liked the safety for my aleague club in having 19 other teams that would have to be better in any season before we dropped - perhaps that is slanted too heavily in favour of staying up given multiple teams get relegated in other 20 team comps.

I would prefer 16 teams to your 15 just so there is no Bye round though. 30 rounds instead of 28.

I want Tassie and the ACT to have teams and I wish we had a second Qld team in. That makes 16. NT is a puzzle for me - we have the Australia Cup playoffs there and it is stinking hot/humid so away games to the NT would be unhealthy as things stand.

When I say forget the crowds, I don't care if a team only brings in a small number of supporters to games. Each team has the chance, the need and the responsibility to build their attendance and support base for financial reasons but having crowds as a factor for joining is wrong. It should be about the football. I don't care if we have 2-3k crowds in the ACT. Making the competition truly national as a starting point is important to me. Relegation will weed out unsustainable clubs one by one.

The advantage of promoting sides rather than always selecting clubs to expand is that it sets the scene for relegation over time after first introducing a reward for playing well.

Soapbox Corner
The Rabbit (Sink) Hole of Perpetual Doom:
It seems to me the one overriding factor against earned promotion is the nationalistic/ethnic team issue that has to be buried once and for all or we can never go P/R. It is an issue that has had much discussion over a long period, and it cannot be ignored. 'Public fear and perception' of potential games like Brisbane Israelites v Perth Palestinians, which in the minds of the public turn the positive celebration of cultures into fear of political and historical warzones, is a real fear.

I am saddened by the fact that it may remain a stumbling block longer than I will live, but every single sokkah incident in any country where race or ethnicity is perceived to have lead to violence or riotous behaviour and hatred will extend the resistance to inclusion and P/R. Those who use football as their bandwagon for violent agenda will keep us in the dark. All mainstream media has to say is "See..." and we are gone again.

My only hope for P/R is that the administration will see that the vanilla geographic dreams of football acceptance is not the answer and that it is the self-sustaining stigma of football and organised resistance against its growth that limits the sport rather than the ethnicity of community clubs.

Completely understand your point on the sporting merit and giving every club a chance to reach the pinnacle, being the A-league.

Im not against what you are saying, although for me I'm firm on the 15 teams in the top flight. I have no issue with a bye.

In my honest opinion, i think we do get to a promotion/relegation scenario. What that looks like needs a heap of work, from top to bottom.