With the high standard of play in the A-League, why are the crowds so low?

[Song]

There are any number of factors that could be raised in responding to the headline, but the one and only significant answer is MEDIA. We know the sport is enjoyed widely in Australia (e.g. participation figures) and, when there is good media coverage, interest explodes (see world cups, big name foreign teams visiting, the period Foxtel actually invested and promoted the A-League).

The A-League's current attendances and TV viewership is largely driven by a sustained lack of promotion and coverage, leading to a lack of awareness. 'Mainstream' Australia (if such a term should be used) is largely unaware of the A-League because there is no reasonable media coverage and many media organisations have, sadly, made a concerted efforts to ignore it.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I think that it was more to do with the suburban history. Carlton is basically Italian, Footscray is everyone because the migrant hostel was just up the road, North Melbourne was the abbatoir on Newmarket road and lots of migrants worked there (low skill, hard labour) and their workmates would go and play on Saturday in Arden street. No migrants at Melbourne because it was old Anglo money (although Barassi did break through), Collingwood was Greek, Hawthorn was Anglo with some money but not old money, etc.

Yeah mate, all undeniably true, yet they weren't in the 40s and 50s when these migrants first came to Australia... My father in law is a died in the wool Collingwood supporter but going to Princess Park in 1950s Australia was foreign world to him and he and another Greek boy stood out like a sore thumb.... never stopped them going though... in fact it was their "in" with Australian society at the time...

 

[LFC]

There are any number of factors that could be raised in responding to the headline, but the one and only significant answer is MEDIA. We know the sport is enjoyed widely in Australia (e.g. participation figures) and, when there is good media coverage, interest explodes (see world cups, big name foreign teams visiting, the period Foxtel actually invested and promoted the A-League).

The A-League's current attendances and TV viewership is largely driven by a sustained lack of promotion and coverage, leading to a lack of awareness. 'Mainstream' Australia (if such a term should be used) is largely unaware of the A-League because there is no reasonable media coverage and many media organisations have, sadly, made a concerted efforts to ignore it.

do you really think alot has to do about MEDIA.
Song, I watch listen to the barrage of AFL and NRL MEDIA coverage/marketing for decades.
I'm sure I am not alone, I have gone to 1 afl game in my life and will never bother again.
Watched 1 GF - got better things to do fark the game.
NRL, think I have gone to maybe 2.
Only watch SOO nowadays.
So why would you expect a huge influx of casuals turn up to a AL game if it was pumped on radio/tiktok/insta/6pm news/fox yaddayaddayadda.
As mentioned when our NT's play interest increase's - absolutely like Olympics then they just FADE away back to normal living stations.
Sure viewership would increase through a better medium than P+ but I doubt you'll see MEDIA pick up new active regular supporters barring the "event" games derbies/those finals that are meant to be because events.

 

[HappyGuus]

I'm not too rosy about attendances this season. My "go to" number is my "10 Club Average". That is, the averages of the oldest 10 clubs since WSW enterered, excluding Auckland, WUnited, and Macarthur. This average actually dropped this season. The worst offender by far was City despite a great season! No doubt they are extremely influenced by hosting Victory once or twice in a season, so their average probably needs to be taken over a rolling two-year period

 

[someguyjc]

Ok, my two cents.

Firstly, I don't think A-League crowds are low. I reckon they have just settled to or more organic level.

Quality on the pitch is not that much of a factor. Obviously when an individual club is performing poorly it's going to effect turn-out for that club, but overall I don't think it matters much. Quality of the AL is bang on where it should be, given the money spent. The perception of quality would be higher if we played in winter, as the intensity increases. It's one of the reasons, the final series always delivers quality games. Who would have thought that the risk of being knocked out of a comp combined with suitable weather conditions delivers entertaining games?

Comparing A-League to NSL is pointless. Too many differences for it to be a like for like comparison. Waste of time.

To a certain extent, the same goes for comparing the first 10 years of the A-League to the last. Those big MV crowds were the direct result of free tickets. There was no shortage of them. Members were given two additional free tickets every other week. Easy to fill a stadium when people aren't paying. Fortunately for MV, these big figures helped get AAMI Park built. Then the freebies dried up, but because we had this shiny new proper football stadium, people were exciting to be a part of that and membership numbers remained strong.

One thing I have observed over the last 5-10 years, is the people who were in their early 20s when the AL started, are now in their 40s. They have kids, mortgages, less time and way less money. That group are going to less games, but are probably still watching on the TV/P+. However, the new crop of people in their 20s haven't filled that gap. There are probably a few reasons for this. Like their parents, they are also broke and their dollar doesn't go anywhere near as far as it did a few decades ago. Cultural differences and a shift in priorities would also have an impact.

I also call BS on competing with the other codes. No shortage of football fans in Australia and I don't think the overlap is a big as people think it is. I've been to AFL and NRL games, and neither appealed to me. No amount of marketing is going to change that and I'm sure I'm not alone. Many football fans follow an NPL club. They would all happily attend an A-League game if their club competed in the A-League. If only there was a mechanism for that to happen...

Media coverage is an interesting one as traditional media is dying. Everyone is a slave to the almighty algorithm now. The days of flicking through channels on the TV or flicking the pages of a newspaper are gone. You are only served content that the algorithm thinks you are interested in. As an example, I get served a lot of Melbourne Victory content because I follow the club on the socials and view the content. I don't see any Melbourne City, Western United, South Melbourne or Knights content because that's not what I'm interested in. It's as granular as that these days.

A-League is now established. Clubs are established. The foundations are there, now it's about slow and steady growth.

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

On the topic of the media's role for or against the AL, what gnaws at me is the negative narrative pushed by the dinosaur media. I get that 7Media has the AFL rights where they paid billions and 9Entertainment paid for the NRL. So those two have a conflict of interest to deter people from watching other sports that they themselves don't broadcast. Has 10 Paramount done enough, I think not but their ratings are not stellar. The ABC basically ignores it and I am not sure that SBS does much either. So the question is not only positive promotion but also negative promotion.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

On the topic of the media's role for or against the AL, what gnaws at me is the negative narrative pushed by the dinosaur media. I get that 7Media has the AFL rights where they paid billions and 9Entertainment paid for the NRL. So those two have a conflict of interest to deter people from watching other sports that they themselves don't broadcast. Has 10 Paramount done enough, I think not but their ratings are not stellar. The ABC basically ignores it and I am not sure that SBS does much either. So the question is not only positive promotion but also negative promotion.

FWIW, the way media reports on soccer these days is like a love letter compared to the NSL days....

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Ok, my two cents.

Firstly, I don't think A-League crowds are low. I reckon they have just settled to or more organic level.

Quality on the pitch is not that much of a factor. Obviously when an individual club is performing poorly it's going to effect turn-out for that club, but overall I don't think it matters much. Quality of the AL is bang on where it should be, given the money spent. The perception of quality would be higher if we played in winter, as the intensity increases. It's one of the reasons, the final series always delivers quality games. Who would have thought that the risk of being knocked out of a comp combined with suitable weather conditions delivers entertaining games?

Comparing A-League to NSL is pointless. Too many differences for it to be a like for like comparison. Waste of time.

To a certain extent, the same goes for comparing the first 10 years of the A-League to the last. Those big MV crowds were the direct result of free tickets. There was no shortage of them. Members were given two additional free tickets every other week. Easy to fill a stadium when people aren't paying. Fortunately for MV, these big figures helped get AAMI Park built. Then the freebies dried up, but because we had this shiny new proper football stadium, people were exciting to be a part of that and membership numbers remained strong.

One thing I have observed over the last 5-10 years, is the people who were in their early 20s when the AL started, are now in their 40s. They have kids, mortgages, less time and way less money. That group are going to less games, but are probably still watching on the TV/P+. However, the new crop of people in their 20s haven't filled that gap. There are probably a few reasons for this. Like their parents, they are also broke and their dollar doesn't go anywhere near as far as it did a few decades ago. Cultural differences and a shift in priorities would also have an impact.

I also call BS on competing with the other codes. No shortage of football fans in Australia and I don't think the overlap is a big as people think it is. I've been to AFL and NRL games, and neither appealed to me. No amount of marketing is going to change that and I'm sure I'm not alone. Many football fans follow an NPL club. They would all happily attend an A-League game if their club competed in the A-League. If only there was a mechanism for that to happen...

Media coverage is an interesting one as traditional media is dying. Everyone is a slave to the almighty algorithm now. The days of flicking through channels on the TV or flicking the pages of a newspaper are gone. You are only served content that the algorithm thinks you are interested in. As an example, I get served a lot of Melbourne Victory content because I follow the club on the socials and view the content. I don't see any Melbourne City, Western United, South Melbourne or Knights content because that's not what I'm interested in. It's as granular as that these days.

A-League is now established. Clubs are established. The foundations are there, now it's about slow and steady growth.

great post.... as always JC.

 

[Keeper66]

FWIW, the way media reports on soccer these days is like a love letter compared to the NSL days....

I'm not so sure on that, at least from the Brisbane perspective. In the 80's the Brisbane papers used to have pre and post game reports on the NSL club(s), as well as reporting (mainly post game, but some pre) on the Brisbane Premier League (the NSL equivalent back then) which included photos. Channel 7 in Brisbane used to have a soccer segment with a local expert in their Sunday morning sports show, which included footage from NSL or local games.

These days there is less coverage of Brisbane Roar (excepting grand finals) in the sole remaining newspaper, and TV news does not often cover A League results (and certainly not local football).

I guess we didn't have the ethnic tensions (real or perceived) that created some negative media down south in the 80's though.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I'm not so sure on that, at least from the Brisbane perspective. In the 80's the Brisbane papers used to have pre and post game reports on the NSL club(s), as well as reporting (mainly post game, but some pre) on the Brisbane Premier League (the NSL equivalent back then) which included photos. Channel 7 in Brisbane used to have a soccer segment with a local expert in their Sunday morning sports show, which included footage from NSL or local games.

These days there is less coverage of Brisbane Roar (excepting grand finals) in the sole remaining newspaper, and TV news does not often cover A League results (and certainly not local football).

I guess we didn't have the ethnic tensions (real or perceived) that created some negative media down south in the 80's though.

Fair call, yes we also had a fair amount of Herald Sun write ups I suppose ... but the "soccer shame" articles were brutal.

 

[Son of Sam]

I'm not too rosy about attendances this season. My "go to" number is my "10 Club Average". That is, the averages of the oldest 10 clubs since WSW enterered, excluding Auckland, WUnited, and Macarthur. This average actually dropped this season. The worst offender by far was City despite a great season! No doubt they are extremely influenced by hosting Victory once or twice in a season, so their average probably needs to be taken over a rolling two-year period

View attachment 2142

I told everyone that would care to listen to look at Perth Glory's numbers. The 10 year mark coincided with the advent of the A League. Their crowds dropped, and have never come back to that level

 

[grazorblade]

Ethnics vs Plastics has been played out for the past 20 years...... its been the longest penalty shootout in history.

I had a dream it actually happened last night

the ethnics had 5 flags make up a southern cross as their jersey and had I am australian by the seekers as their song whereas the plastics had a rainbow jersey with an aussie flag and had the australian anthem to introduce them

then Guus Gould and Ray Warren were doing the commentary and I knew a) it was a dream 2) I spend too much time on this forum

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I had a dream it actually happened last night

the ethnics had 5 flags make up a southern cross as their jersey and had I am australian by the seekers as their song whereas the plastics had a rainbow jersey with an aussie flag and had the australian anthem to introduce them

then Guus Gould and Ray Warren were doing the commentary and I knew a) it was a dream 2) I spend too much time on this forum

Plastics FC already HAS a logo mate.....


OK.... even I admit that was lame... lol

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

I'm not so sure on that, at least from the Brisbane perspective. In the 80's the Brisbane papers used to have pre and post game reports on the NSL club(s), as well as reporting (mainly post game, but some pre) on the Brisbane Premier League (the NSL equivalent back then) which included photos. Channel 7 in Brisbane used to have a soccer segment with a local expert in their Sunday morning sports show, which included footage from NSL or local games.

These days there is less coverage of Brisbane Roar (excepting grand finals) in the sole remaining newspaper, and TV news does not often cover A League results (and certainly not local football).

I guess we didn't have the ethnic tensions (real or perceived) that created some negative media down south in the 80's though.

Back in the 70s and 80s the media was independent of the other states. So Ch 7 Melbourne had no links at all with Ch 7 Brisbane, etc. Thus the difference.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I often watch the highlights to A-League games, and I have to say, the general standard of play has been great, but why are the crowds so low?

Yes, the Euro snobs will say the A-League is poor compared to Europe and South America, but I guess you can't please everyone.

Should football revert back to winter?, but then football will have to compete directly with the more established codes of football like the AFL and NRL. So how do we get the crowds back up to levels of around 14 to 15K? (the average A-League attendance is currently around 9k).

This was a really entertaining thread this week SR, suprisingly civil conversations too.. thanks.

 

[grazorblade]

I told everyone that would care to listen to look at Perth Glory's numbers. The 10 year mark coincided with the advent of the A League. Their crowds dropped, and have never come back to that level

Would definitely be interested in hearing from perth fans whether the a league caused crowds to drop for them

 

[Son of Sam]

Would definitely be interested in hearing from perth fans whether the a league caused crowds to drop for them

I do not think it was the A League that started the decline. I think that the 'novelty' had worn off by then. The A League itself suffered from Ten Yearitis

 

[Song]

do you really think alot has to do about MEDIA.
Song, I watch listen to the barrage of AFL and NRL MEDIA coverage/marketing for decades.
I'm sure I am not alone, I have gone to 1 afl game in my life and will never bother again.
Watched 1 GF - got better things to do fark the game.
NRL, think I have gone to maybe 2.
Only watch SOO nowadays.
So why would you expect a huge influx of casuals turn up to a AL game if it was pumped on radio/tiktok/insta/6pm news/fox yaddayaddayadda.
As mentioned when our NT's play interest increase's - absolutely like Olympics then they just FADE away back to normal living stations.
Sure viewership would increase through a better medium than P+ but I doubt you'll see MEDIA pick up new active regular supporters barring the "event" games derbies/those finals that are meant to be because events.

Yes, I do.

In response to your points:
1. Your actions are not reflective of the broader population given that (a) you are on a football forum and (b) the question is in relation to to those who do not attend.
2. Why would I expect a huge influx of casuals? Because we have seen it before. The more media exposure that a sport (or product) receives, then generally the better they perform.
3. The national team example is a good one, interest increases on exposure. The fact it is not sustained is because the exposure also falls away once the world cup (or whatever tournament it is) finishes. Sustained exposure is critical.
4. The vast majority of people are not 'rusted on' fans of a particular sport. The general population will go with the flow, and be strongly influenced by what is put in front of them and what is told in the media.

I was hopeful that the A-League was get picked up by Nine / Stan, given the exposure it may provide through Channel 9 news and Fairfax newspapers (i.e. across both mediums) and their rights to Champions League and (soon) the Premier League. It would be a huge boost to have those three competitions on the same platform. However, i think that opportunity is lost given that Nine recently extended (and incredibly, increased) their contract with Rugby Union. It seems their secondary domestic sport offering will be Rugby, rather than Football.

 

[LFC]

Yes, I do.

In response to your points:
1. Your actions are not reflective of the broader population given that (a) you are on a football forum and (b) the question is in relation to to those who do not attend.

sure my actions is one thing being invested here though from general observations of groups I mix with with even in AL's heydays I can count on 1 hand those who attended a derby once don't bother again.

2. Why would I expect a huge influx of casuals? Because we have seen it before. The more media exposure that a sport (or product) receives, then generally the better they perform.

thats it the casuals did turn up - we have to see IF they bother consistantly in the future.

3. The national team example is a good one, interest increases on exposure. The fact it is not sustained is because the exposure also falls away once the world cup (or whatever tournament it is) finishes. Sustained exposure is critical.

sure sustained exposure, its obvious P+ was their only go to and nothing great in $'s IF only it was spent wisely - wasted, thats on the APL for don't forget I suspect anything Roos/Matildas is in the FA's grip and bank acc, APL may get a agreed kick back but MOST of the NT's cash flow to FA should be going down to grass roots and NPL more than anything so as it can keep development on the go and boosting our U18/23 youth Roos and upwards.

4. The vast majority of people are not 'rusted on' fans of a particular sport. The general population will go with the flow, and be strongly influenced by what is put in front of them and what is told in the media.

true hence quoting "casuals" "event goers" - a league or any Pro sport cannot live off them though, infact they should be "incermental" business but they are big need to date - take away newbie Auckland figures would be lower,

I was hopeful that the A-League was get picked up by Nine / Stan, given the exposure it may provide through Channel 9 news and Fairfax newspapers (i.e. across both mediums) and their rights to Champions League and (soon) the Premier League. It would be a huge boost to have those three competitions on the same platform. However, i think that opportunity is lost given that Nine recently extended (and incredibly, increased) their contract with Rugby Union. It seems their secondary domestic sport offering will be Rugby, rather than Football.

HOPE is the perfect description - look I get your POV, re viewing numbers on a good medium I do, still a FOX subscriber and TBH I'd hardly stay home to watch a AL game pre EPL but that lazy Sat night at home I would if its a good game BUT in saying that, so many are like me as you say of the broader outlook, how many other channel surfers would watch clicking viewing numbers up but would never go to a AL game let alone watch on the box week by week.
So yep being on a good platform is KEY but you also need the product quality and I view alot randomly due to FOX/Stan/Optus/and any other depending who has won the rights.
Ch9 is suffering, not much hope there even though they re-signed Rugby, Olympics they had a surge obviously but now in decline again 10/15% in revenues around 2.6B.
Rubgy was in massive decline and that new deal is recovery to them similar to AL P+ imo, $240M till 2030, sold their souls as well because the product and desperate.
APL/P+ was around $200M - seriously its chicken feed - neither are in great selling spaces whatsoever.
What sochka has what these other codes don't is P/R, OR at least lets unbundle the APL and incl MORE Clubs not Franchise's.
Watch the interest prevail - our Pro league in its current guise I'll be surprised it pulling in a decent fish let alone a decent payday.
Hope I'm wrong but.........

Look at this recent article from wanka stefanovic who made good point about our Saudi Roo game not on FTA.

Peter V'landys floats $3 billion change to Origin amid complaint from Karl Stefanovic

The Origin series could have a different look about it after the NRL's next big broadcasting deal. More here.

au.news.yahoo.com

Then see NRL's Vlandys talking up chasing a new $3B payday for the code.

By the way thanks for the reply Song.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

sure my actions is one thing being invested here though from general observations of groups I mix with with even in AL's heydays I can count on 1 hand those who attended a derby once don't bother again.

thats it the casuals did turn up - we have to see IF they bother consistantly in the future.

sure sustained exposure, its obvious P+ was their only go to and nothing great in $'s IF only it was spent wisely - wasted, thats on the APL for don't forget I suspect anything Roos/Matildas is in the FA's grip and bank acc, APL may get a agreed kick back but MOST of the NT's cash flow to FA should be going down to grass roots and NPL more than anything so as it can keep development on the go and boosting our U18/23 youth Roos and upwards.

true hence quoting "casuals" "event goers" - a league or any Pro sport cannot live off them though, infact they should be "incermental" business but they are big need to date - take away newbie Auckland figures would be lower,

HOPE is the perfect description - look I get your POV, re viewing numbers on a good medium I do, still a FOX subscriber and TBH I'd hardly stay home to watch a AL game pre EPL but that lazy Sat night at home I would if its a good game BUT in saying that, so many are like me as you say of the broader outlook, how many other channel surfers would watch clicking viewing numbers up but would never go to a AL game let alone watch on the box week by week.
So yep being on a good platform is KEY but you also need the product quality and I view alot randomly due to FOX/Stan/Optus/and any other depending who has won the rights.
Ch9 is suffering, not much hope there even though they re-signed Rugby, Olympics they had a surge obviously but now in decline again 10/15% in revenues around 2.6B.
Rubgy was in massive decline and that new deal is recovery to them similar to AL P+ imo, $240M till 2030, sold their souls as well because the product and desperate.
APL/P+ was around $200M - seriously its chicken feed - neither are in great selling spaces whatsoever.
What sochka has what these other codes don't is P/R, OR at least lets unbundle the APL and incl MORE Clubs not Franchise's.
Watch the interest prevail - our Pro league in its current guise I'll be surprised it pulling in a decent fish let alone a decent payday.
Hope I'm wrong but.........

Look at this recent article from wanka stefanovic who made good point about our Saudi Roo game not on FTA.

Peter V'landys floats $3 billion change to Origin amid complaint from Karl Stefanovic

The Origin series could have a different look about it after the NRL's next big broadcasting deal. More here.

au.news.yahoo.com

Then see NRL's Vlandys talking up chasing a new $3B payday for the code.

By the way thanks for the reply Song.

Your last point on the $3 billion TV deal. Do you not think that this is what influences football administrators in this country. IE: A closed league and no pro/rel ?

They get this with virtually no international competitions as well.