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Australian politics.

A last comment is that the LNP and Dutton have been waging war on the ABC. I'm nominally involved in Friends Of The ABC, but other mates are heavily involved.

Whereas I think the ABC have done plenty of decent docos, many progressives are concerned the ABC TV News is quite conservative, more like one would see on Fox.

Yes 23 activists were appalled at the TV news coverage of The Voice by both SBS and ABC news. Whereas we attracted 300 000 for Auswide rallies supporting Yes, the No received a pathetic 10 000 for theirs.Yet the SBS and ABC camera shots constantly showed small groups of the massive crowds at Yes demos, whilst taking favourable angles to get all of the small No demos in shots that made them look big - a lot bigger than they were!

This occurred last weekend in an anti-salmon rally on Parl Lawns. Richard Flanagan, keynote speaker, stated that the click counter showed over 6000 people attended. Then the local Murdoch rag and the ABC reported a few hundred attended! This happens all the time!

Experienced journos involved in Friends Of The ABC are appalled at young ABC journos not fact checking, or using the Murdoch fact checker.

Moreover, when the Sec of the Aus Journos Assoc addressed the National Retired Unionist Network, she said a lot of ABC journalism was contracted out! Hence, some Fox/Sky journos are the contractors sent to cover stories under ABC jurisdiction! She also said that few of the journos/reporters share Murdoch's right wing views, but want a job.

On the ABC coverage of election night, after a few a few craft beers, I thought the ABC journos/reporters looked ecstatic when the results came in! One less inebriated watcher at our election party, suggested they were assured of their jobs with the ABC - and they would not have to seek work with Fox/Sky!

Dutton wanted to abolish the ABC, or at least emasculate it more.
 
I just think anti semitism is seen as more acceptable then being anti any other race. Like there were protests going on the Jewish suburbs I found that strange. The Jews don't protest in other suburbs not that I seen anyways.

But I agree you can be anti Zionist without being anti semitic
I like to think I'm the latter in the last sentence of your post. I'm glad you've articulated it.

I've been told I might be inadvertently anti-Semetic, which worries me. If anyone was launching an attack on Israel with a vastly superior military force, I'd be supporting Israel.
 
Rinehart is off the show!

Honestly, the right have had an influence in the education curriculum - which has taken Aus backwards in international PISA testing scores for understanding and problem solving.

Yet the morons think there is a woke agenda in schools!!!!!!
 
I'm having trouble with the soft ware.

Take your point with the stats. Thanks for posting them. I have had no access to data. 1.6 compared to 0.01 is quite a difference. However, to play the devil's advocate, did more Jews report anti-Semetic attacks than Muslims reported attacks on Islam?

Is Islamaphobia more prevalent in Aus and does the Muslim community feel like there will be less likelihood of action in support of them? I'm posing the question, not claiming it is true.
Difficult to measure whether underreporting is more of an issue for one or the other though I'm skeptical it would make up an order of magnitude difference. If underreporting was an issue I would expect that to show up in self reports being higher than police reports. However, it is in the Jewish sample we see self reports exceeding police reports. Antisemitic hate crimes are roughly at a level where every Jewish Australian will experience an average of over 1 hate crime in their life. That's not to say Islamaphobia should be taken less seriously but that the left should take left wing antisemitism way more seriously

Internally within Labor Fed Muslim MPs Ann Ahly, Ed Husic and Senator Fatima Payman, the latter who has left the party, claimed they had data showing the stats ( which I haven't seen) were the inverse of yours. That it is Islamaphobia that has been more prevalent. FP has told me the incidents of Islamaphobia are far greater than incidents of anti- Semitism.

.
I'd like to see the stats. In every country I can access police data antisemitism is much higher. I first became aware of how bad it was in 2019 when I was advising a young (brilliant) Jewish phd student and the rate of anti-semitic hate crimes country by country since that was a major factor in him choosing where to do a postdoctorate. So the stats I dug up are consistent with the rest of the western world

Left wingers may dominate academic institutions, but I repudiate that the media is leftist orientated in Aus, or that left wingers dominate political parties. The only tabloid in Southern Tas is the Mercury, a Murdoch publication. Murdoch dominates Aus media, having tabloids in every state, plus the Australian. I'm not sure what market share Sky/Fox have? I think the ABC and SBS is neutral, although probably rallying against Dutton/LNP wanting to sack them and disband them if elected. Fairfax, Age and SMH are neutral. TV networks 7, 9 and 10 tend to be conservative.
I read the Guardian, New Daily, Saturday Paper and Michael West Media, but they might have small distribution apart from The Guardian. These networks are leftist though.
I'll have to double check my wording but what I should've said is that journalists skew left, particularly on social issues. It is true of course that Australia has a big Murdoch presence. I can't find any data more recent than 2013 but 51% of journalists skewed left then compared to 12% skewing right. This was according to a University of Sunshine coast survey. This includes 47% of news corps journalists preferring labour and 20% of them voting greens. Since the ownership in Australia is either conservative (murdoch) or left (guardian, possible abc) or neutral (packer) this probably means skewing right on class issues (where murdoch is much more likely to control the narrative) and left on other issues. I'd be curious if the presence of sky has changed this dynamic but I cant find recent data.

The Aus Labor govt provides weapons of war to support the Israeli war machine. Hamas shouldn't have started the action against Israel, and taken hostages, but 40 000 - 50 000 Gazans have been killed by the Israeli war machine, despite ongoing protests by Israeli citizens.

The allusion to American Jews supporting the unjust genocide/war on Gaza, in terms of having killed 50 000 Gazans, including many civilians and non- combatants, seems immaterial. The subsequent point you make carries little validity, because of the imbalance in life lost in Gaza. How many Israelis have lost lives compared to 50 000 Gazans?

The polls are to show that the Jewish presence in activist circles including the ones you listed are tokenized voices and not any more evidence that antisemitism isn't rife amongst the far left in Australia than having Candace Owens and a bunch of other Black people for Trump speaking at pro Trump events means racism isn't an issue there

Israel's Casus Belli is that Hamas the intent and ability to do this again and they are likely to continue until they have removed Hamas from power. If New Zealand had a prime minister whose goal towards Australia was analogous to Hamas and they showed they were a threat by killing a thousand aussies, Australia definitely are invading to replace New Zealand leadership, even if New Zealanders had legitimate grievances against us. There probably isn't a country in the world that wouldn't. So it seems wrong to me to hold the one Jewish nation to a standard no country has been able to hold themselves to.
But even if you disagree with that, a big factor in my moral calculus is that it is a heck of lot more likely that protests change climate towards local Jewish communities than it is to change the foreign policy of USA of Israel which ultimately determine the trajectory of the conflict. Of course, not everyone agrees with this point. My student government at Monash when I did my PhD campaigned on ending the war in Afghanistan, which was adorable but ultimately harmless. Exaggerations, poor fact checking, bias and lack of nuance in left wing circles often leads to hyberbolic accusations against powerful groups (white people, USA etc) that is ultimately harmless and you get the extra passion for a cause with little negative tradeoff. That isn't the case here where exaggerations, poor fact checking, bias and a lack of nuance metastasizes into blood libel and hate crimes.

I've given pretty serious though to this issue, Grazor. I defer to others who know a lot more than me, but I've addressed TPAN/APAN political rallies from the perspective of conveying support and solidarity offered by the National and local Retired Unionist Networks, or Educators For Peace ( Aus Educ Union),which have authorised me to advocate on their behalf, because these groups are perceived as peace movements.

With Educators For Peace, we support any group oppressed by war, like Ukraine. Labor Friends Of Palestine, comes under the umbrella of Labor Against War, which is campaigning against AUKUS and supports Ukraine against Russia.

When I started to research the Israel/ Palestine conflict, what was the catalyst for action, was the research conducted by the reputable Amnesty International - which is recognised as pretty impartial. The ongoing maltreatment of Palestinians by Israelis is elucidated.

I would not call Amnesty International a reputable source. Their antisemitism is well documented and goes back well before Oct 7. I won't give a full list but note that Amnesty opposes the IHRA definition of anti-semitism and in 2015 the UK branch voted to reject a campaign against antisemitism. More materially, their accusations against Israel tend to be pretty factually sloppy and omits important context. This includes their 2022 report accusing them of Apartheid and 2024 report accusing them of genocide

 
So did the greens condemn

So what have the greens done for the Jewish community and have they condemn anti semitism?
Maybe they haven't done a lot for the Jewish community perceiving it is privileged, resilient, well-organised and doesn't need support.

I'd like to think the Greens I know, a lot of them, that they would repudiate anti-Semetism.

Good questions raised, MCG. I will pose these questions to Greens next time I see any of them.
 
I would not call Amnesty International a reputable source. Their antisemitism is well documented and goes back well before Oct 7. I won't give a full list but note that Amnesty opposes the IHRA definition of anti-semitism and in 2015 the UK branch voted to reject a campaign against antisemitism. More materially, their accusations against Israel tend to be pretty factually sloppy and omits important context. This includes their 2022 report accusing them of Apartheid and 2024 report accusing them of genocide
Wow!

I assumed that Amnesty were highly respected by all as an axiom?

This is the first time I've seen anyone questioning their objectivity. I live next door to key people in Tas Amnesty.

Will raise this with them.
 
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I just think anti semitism is seen as more acceptable then being anti any other race. Like there were protests going on the Jewish suburbs I found that strange. The Jews don't protest in other suburbs not that I seen anyways.

But I agree you can be anti Zionist without being anti semitic
Probably depends on your definition of Zionism

if the definition is a minimal one that zionism means "there should (continue) to exist a state with a Jewish identity in the middle east" then I am skeptical that you can be anti-zionist and not be antisemitic, or at a minimum deeply influenced by antisemitism.

If the definition of zionism is "agree with Israel no matter what" then yes of course, but I doubt that is a fair definition of zionism
 
Probably depends on your definition of Zionism

if the definition is a minimal one that zionism means "there should (continue) to exist a state with a Jewish identity in the middle east" then I am skeptical that you can be anti-zionist and not be antisemitic, or at a minimum deeply influenced by antisemitism.

If the definition of zionism is "agree with Israel no matter what" then yes of course, but I doubt that is a fair definition of zionism
Oxford Dictionary

Zionism - a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and ( now) the protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organisation in 1897 under Theodor Herzi, and later led by Chaim Weizman.

Palestine support group activists have usually adopted something different.
 
Wow!

I assumed that Amnesty were highly respected by all as an axiom?

This is the first time I've seen anyone questioning their objectivity. I live next door to key people in Tas Amnesty.

Will raise this with them.
unfortunately a lot of organizations haven't covered themselves in glory on this subject. Even the BBC, reputable on so many subjects have issued a remarkable number of retractions after making false accusations against Israel. A non complete sample of retractions include

-falsely claiming Israel targeted medical teams and Arab speakers during a raid on Al Shifa hospital
-falsely claimed an Israel missile was responsible for the destruction of Al Ahli hospital
- In December claimed Israeli soldiers committed "summary executions" on civilians and later retracted it

That's not to say that everything is rosy once things are fact checked and put into context. The prosecutor in the war crimes case (which will probably never go to court) is a friend of a friend and the case looks plausible (I've been told some of the evidence)
 
That the ICC, recognised as having high credibility by most lawyers I know, wanting to arrest Netanyahu, and charge him with war crimes, is pretty damning.
 
That the ICC, recognised as having high credibility by most lawyers I know, wanting to arrest Netanyahu, and charge him with war crimes, is pretty damning.
It is in my view a much more plausible case than the genocide case. It is very hard to commit a war crime, since the law is designed to not undermine any military advantage a country might have. The law was written after ww2 when england carpet combed german citizens indiscriminately. Very little is a war crime - otherwise it would be impossible to get countries to agree to a law that could undermine their ability to win a war. I would recommend reading the law

There is also no point prosecuting acts by individuals or even groups of soldiers as that can be handled internally by a country's courts.

In this case there does look like there could be a plausible case that Netanyahu has done something without strategic benefit and they believe they can show intent. I can't share details since, I anyway know it second hand and I can't guarantee its accuracy. The prosecutor is a friend of a friend rather than someone I know personally
 
Christian Zionists, who are all protestant (not all protestant are), specifically the evangelical heartland of the USA are Christian Zionists. You'll find similarly in Australia such people exist. Many British observant protestant Christians are either Zionists or sympathetic to Israel.
Yes, those (lower case) Evangelical Zionists are a real thing I agree with you for a change... I was more discussing Zionism as a nationalistic concept as it originated though, Ill concede the point.
 
Christian Zionists, who are all protestant (not all protestant are), specifically the evangelical heartland of the USA are Christian Zionists. You'll find similarly in Australia such people exist. Many British observant protestant Christians are either Zionists or sympathetic to
Lupi and I on the same point. Wtf?!!
 
I literally have not met a Jew in Australia. And if I have I didn't know about it.

There's not a single person I've met, as far as I know, that is Jewish.

This obsession with Jews, in Australia, is beyond weird for me.
Thats an odd take mate, Come down to Melbourne. There are pockets here where the Jewsih diaspora is very WELL represented... Im not one fro stats but I would be quite comfortable saying most down here are more likely to know a Jewish friend in comparison to indigenous folk. I can see how different pockets of Australia would have a different perspective though.
 
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Again, you're not understanding the point. Are all Christians Nazis? No. But if I hated Nazis, would you say I hate Christians?

There are Zionist Muslims. The main point being made was that the Greens hate Jews, which is not true. They hate Zionism. That the Zionists are predominantly Jewish is not linked to them hating Jews.



Was literally the first link when I googled, "the greens antisemitism"
Sorry Zimbo, attacking this from a different perspective I suppose... Of course not all Christians are Nazis, thats ludicrous... The Zionism I was talking about was the ultra-nationalistic Jewish homeland, ethnically cleanse the "chosen land" of Muslims type... I hadn't considered the various "lobby groups" aligned with the same values, I concede the point. :)
 
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Lupi and I on the same point. Wtf?!!
Lupi has posted so many posts on G and G FC, that he might be an almost respected member/senior elder of the forum, who will go back to his old happy place, Anarchy Football, and troll them!
 
Thats an odd take mate, Come down to Melbourne. There are pockets here where the Jewsih diaspora is very WELL represented... Im not one fro stats but I would be quite comfortable saying most down here are more likely to know a Jewish friend in comparison to indigenous folk. I can see how different pockets of Australia would have a different perspective though.

Yeah can only relay my experience. I've lived in Sydney, Townsville, Brisbane, Cairns, Darwin and grew up in country NSW and literally never, knowingly, ran into one. I'm sure I've met one but it's never been overt enough for me to notice.

I remember living in Sydney and people used to talk about Jewish people living in Vaucluse but that's it.
 
Lupi has posted so many posts on G and G FC, that he might be an almost respected member/senior elder of the forum, who will go back to his old happy place, Anarchy Football, and troll them!

'respected' ???!!!

Hardly.
 
More post mortem stuff coming out every day.

Liberals still can't seem to get their thick heads around the fact women are 51% of the population.

It's no coincidence that every teal seat went to a woman in a former liberal seat.

Just how thick are they?

It seems, very.

And now there's factions of the party talking of going even further right.

Good, keep listening to Gina, Credlin and Bolt. Enjoy getting decimated at the next election as well.
 
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