G&G FC Podcast: #14 – Tom Byer on Japan's Football Revolution

[grazorblade]

Ostensibly, Tom Byer knows the underage coaches in Aus, better than the underage players coming through from U23 and younger. Players like Bos brothers, Valadon, Milanovic, Villupillay, Irankunda, Okon Jr, Segecic, Bozinovski, Teague, Jake Hollman, Quintal, Deli, Youlley look good compared to better Asian international opposition of their peers - technically.

It is interesting to hear from full time analysts not involved in Australia (One from Bulgaria and one from the UK). We are still behind the very elite technically (barcalona etc) but have caught up quite a bit to the next tier down but we are now remedial athletically. One person who works in Australia said that the lack of full time coaches means we can't develop both technical and physical qualities to an acceptable level without full time coaches and we don't have many of them. Many have also pointed to the length of the season as a limiting factor too. The State academies were apparently an attempt to increase the number of full time coaches and I believe were Ernie Merrick's baby. Curious if they stay around when he leaves

 

[grazorblade]

In support of Tom B, and he made some excellent points, the 10-13 yo phase for key learning is true in terms of game sense and technique in the NC. But he makes the point that technique should be acquired earlier.

The Aus NC focuses on kids enjoying football in structured SSGs with some funny formation progressions for 7 and 9 a side on the way to 11 a side at age 12. The Brazilians go straight from 4v4 or 5v5 with keepers, to 11 v 11 at age 12-13 instead.

I like the fact coaches visit Japanese schools once per week to work with all kids, not focusing on identified elite from an early age in Aus. It is a compelling point. A lot of kids drop out for a diversity of reasons. I totally agree with Tom B that Aus needs to improve all young football players, not just an elite identified at an early age.

From my teaching background and knowledge of Piaget's Child Development theories, kids develop slowly and quickly at different ages. One size doesn't fit all. The NC is too prescriptive.

Another issue though is Tom B claiming it is ideal coaching kids from age 2-6, is very, very young. I've taught age 4-5 a lot in Kindergarten as a professional early childhood teacher. In the Kindergarten Development Check a lot of kids are still learning to hop on both feet at this age. They really are babies in terms of physical development.

However, ages 7-9 are terrific for football skills acquisition.

7-9 would be an improvement! I was curious about what he meant by getting day cares involved since he stressed the role of parents 1v1. I Imagine day cares won't be as good as playing with parents but better than nothing. He claims 2-6 year olds can learn ball mastery. He has a 4 month program here

Learn

Get Started The following skills are the basic foundation of ball mastery. Parents are encouraged to spend time with their children for them to learn how to manipulate the ball with their feet. Cre…

footballstartsathomeph.com

I have a 2.5 year old and they are able to be taught in the way. Our family genetics are remedial athletically - the only sport I excelled at was cricket since it is a very unphysical game where if you master technique you can do well. However, we are an academic family so get verbal a lot quicker. My 2.5 year can count to 12 and when I say "put your foot on the ball" they understand it (all kids could speak full sentences before the age of 1 but were 1-2 years behind when you are supposed to be able to hop). So in many ways we are very atypical kids. Still, Sylvia was able to roll the ball around with her feet and slide it. It took a few days building up from 5 seconds at a time with lots of lavish praise, to 5 minutes. I'm gonna keep going and see how they are in 4 months. The ideal is they start experimenting once they learn the basics

 

[BA81]

It is interesting to hear from full time analysts not involved in Australia (One from Bulgaria and one from the UK)

I assume it’s Petar Petrov on #SokkahTwitter

 

[grazorblade]

I assume it’s Petar Petrov on #SokkahTwitter

Yep in his case he says what i said on record in a pod coming out tomorrow

 

[Decentric]

Interestingly Ron Smith's twitter has had plenty of posts this year about the need for some isolated training away from a game realistic scenario. He claims you need both because some techniques you learn slower if you don't have an initial period of isolated training.

There is some sense in Ron’s position. And as we’ve discussed elsewhere, Berger has a weird notion about criticizing isolated technique acquisition - which Coerver is.

However, where Ron falls down is that he was Aus Tech Dir before the Guus and Baan era.

Ron did nothing to try and implement a nationwide revamped curriculum, like Baan/Berger.

 

[Decentric]

That was interesting tid bit about kewell. Do you know where he denies it?

No.

But as Kewell was the Aus star player at the time, it has been discussed in coaching workshops a lot and even informal discussions with senior coaches within the then FFA Tech Dept.

I have seen one interview with Kewell where he said he practiced for an hour a day as a kid by himself doing:
1. Juggling.
2. Playing against a wall.
3. Dribbling around cones.

This covers a lot of technical areas.

 

[grazorblade]

There is some sense in Ron’s position. And as we’ve discussed elsewhere, Berger has a weird notion about criticizing isolated technique acquisition - which Coerver is.

However, where Ron falls down is that he was Aus Tech Dir before the Guus and Baan era.

Ron did nothing to try and implement a nationwide revamped curriculum, like Baan/Berger.

yeah i noticed coach education was a thing johnny warren emphasized reading up about his views.

One thing I disagreed with Tom on is the statement "other countries don't have a curriculum".

They do, they just don't call it a curriculum. But they tend to have free grass roots courses with training sessions for different age groups then a coach education pathway with courses (a,b c licenses). If I'm not mistaken there is no difference between that and a national curriculum?

 

[Decentric]

I definitely expect the club structure to matter quite a bit. If you could produce world class players just with better coaching methods you could turn america samoa into a super power!

I’m actually quite excited as an Asian nation that Japan is close to a football superpower.

As a neutral, and for the football purist, Aus getting 4 points against them is sad for football!

 

[Decentric]

Another fantastic point Tom made is educating the parent as a coach. This is exactly what early childhood teachers do. To train parents in helping children read.

Unless it has changed recently, we used to neglect this in Aus.

Football that is, not teaching parents to help kids to read at home.

Kids doing what Kewell did at home is fantastic for technique. Kids need innate and intrinsic motivation though.

Those videos you describe for kids to use in England sound like a great idea.

Also, after seeing Wrexham play I’m rapidly changing my view about English football. The technical football they play for a Champ or upper League 1 team is high. England may have the best second tier and third tier pro leagues in the world! The metamorphosis is incredible in a short period of time.

A lot of the probs identified in Aus football by Dutch coaches in 2007 were also apparent in the Champ and League 1.

 

[LFC]

No.

But as Kewell was the Aus star player at the time, it has been discussed in coaching workshops a lot and even informal discussions with senior coaches within the then FFA Tech Dept.

I have seen one interview with Kewell where he said he practiced for an hour a day as a kid by himself doing:
1. Juggling.
2. Playing against a wall.
3. Dribbling around cones.

This covers a lot of technical areas.

the 3 points were a regular way of mucking around at home even before HK made it around our backyards.
Day in day out if your into football as a kid you were outside kicking the ball.
My mum would get pissed how many plants got ruined and I'm sure she wasn't alone.
As you got a little older after school you'd be down the local park playing ball games with the many locals,.
I mentioned hand eye co ordination before, you'd give some time playing cricket at the nets one end of the oval, then another group would be playing football, another group would be playing forcings back with a eggball.
All this variety trained ball sense, how/when to move/competition.
Many kids could pick either sport they would excell at - hence why we here are pretty good at alot of sports unlike other countries where football is No1 full stop period..
Oh then we'd all rush home by 6ish for dinner.

Parents today are too scared and protective allowing their kids play at the local park like the ol days.
Hence academys having grown so much, as good as it is to be professionally trained it takes away just play for "fun" aspect.

 

[Decentric]

It is interesting to hear from full time analysts not involved in Australia (One from Bulgaria and one from the UK). We are still behind the very elite technically (barcalona etc) but have caught up quite a bit to the next tier down but we are now remedial athletically. One person who works in Australia said that the lack of full time coaches means we can't develop both technical and physical qualities to an acceptable level without full time coaches and we don't have many of them. Many have also pointed to the length of the season as a limiting factor too. The State academies were apparently an attempt to increase the number of full time coaches and I believe were Ernie Merrick's baby. Curious if they stay around when he leaves

It is interesting to hear from full time analysts not involved in Australia (One from Bulgaria and one from the UK). We are still behind the very elite technically (barcalona etc) but have caught up quite a bit to the next tier down but we are now remedial athletically. One person who works in Australia said that the lack of full time coaches means we can't develop both technical and physical qualities to an acceptable level without full time coaches and we don't have many of them. Many have also pointed to the length of the season as a limiting factor too. The State academies were apparently an attempt to increase the number of full time coaches and I believe were Ernie Merrick's baby. Curious if they stay around when he leaves

Again you've made these very interesting points off forum.

I'm out of the loop these days, but it may be the case that specific athletic training is now a much bigger part of coaching in player development than before - plyometrics and weight training. I know a lot about the latter, but barely anything about the former.

I must start attending the FA National Conferences again.

Length of season:

AL - about 26 games?

Eredivisie - 34 games.

Championship and League 1 - 46 games?

I'm concerned with risk of injury for the latter. Although if a player is injured for the first half of a season, to play 23 games in the second half of the season is a big plus.

AL considered too short, although if a team plays ACL it is closer to an ideal 34 - 38 games. Is this ideal? Also, if they play national team football that adds more games.

 

[Decentric]

the 3 points were a regular way of mucking around at home even before HK made it around our backyards.
Day in day out if your into football as a kid you were outside kicking the ball.
My mum would get pissed how many plants got ruined and I'm sure she wasn't alone.
As you got a little older after school you'd be down the local park playing ball games with the many locals,.
I mentioned hand eye co ordination before, you'd give some time playing cricket at the nets one end of the oval, then another group would be playing football, another group would be playing forcings back with a eggball.
All this variety trained ball sense, how/when to move/competition.
Many kids could pick either sport they would excell at - hence why we here are pretty good at alot of sports unlike other countries where football is No1 full stop period..
Oh then we'd all rush home by 6ish for dinner.

Parents today are too scared and protective allowing their kids play at the local park like the ol days.
Hence academys having grown so much, as good as it is to be professionally trained it takes away just play for "fun" aspect.

Interesting comments, LFC.

If kids follow a bit of guidance, like using both feet, it is terrific.

I've coached a lot of highly technical kids, who've played a lot of street football in refugee camps. The main problem is they are often very one foot, and one side of the body dominant. They have a lot of work to do, sometimes to unlearn bad habits, and, to use their non preferred side of the body and foot.

 

[Keeper66]

I’m actually quite excited as an Asian nation that Japan is close to a football superpower.

As a neutral, and for the football purist, Aus getting 4 points against them is sad for football!

If I’m looking at those games as a neutral and a football lover, it exemplifies why many people love football. That is, being the best team and having the best players doesn’t necessarily guarantee winning. Other things like tactics, determination, application and will to win ( and sometimes a bit of luck) can overcome the best. It’s what makes real supporters keep coming back and supporting their team, whatever the level.

 

[Decentric]

If I’m looking at those games as a neutral and a football lover, it exemplifies why many people love football. That is, being the best team and having the best players doesn’t necessarily guarantee winning. Other things like tactics, determination, application and will to win ( and sometimes a bit of luck) can overcome the best. It’s what makes real supporters keep coming back and supporting their team, whatever the level.

Well said!

There would probably now be a number of football fans in Asia who would view Japan similarly to how Brazil have been appreciated globally. Many Asian fans may perceive Japan as their favourite second team after their country of birth/residence.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Well said!

There would probably now be a number of football fans in Asia who would view Japan similarly to how Brazil have been appreciated globally. Many Asian fans may perceive Japan as their favourite second team after their country of birth/residence.

You dont really know much about Asia do you mate? I sincerely doubt anyone in China, Thailand, Laos, or both Koreas would be favouring Japan anytime soon.

 

[Decentric]

You dont really know much about Asia do you mate? I sincerely doubt anyone in China, Thailand, Laos, or both Koreas would be favouring Japan anytime soon.

You and I perceive football on very different levels, Mono.

Hence, your article on Fan View made for compelling reading.

Emotionally Asian fans may not appreciate Japanese football, but tactically in some facets, and technically, those who are interested in these aspects of football may enjoy watching Japan because they are the best.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

You and I perceive football on very different levels, Mono.

Hence, your article on Fan View made for compelling reading.

Emotionally Asian fans may not appreciate Japanese football, but tactically in some facets, and technically, those who are interested in these aspects of football may enjoy watching Japan because they are the best.

Not about football per se mate.. Chinese people (for example) I speak to are extremely nationalistic and would look down on ALL facets of Japanese culture, let alone football...

 

[Decentric]

Not about football per se mate.. Chinese people (for example) I speak to are extremely nationalistic and would look down on ALL facets of Japanese culture, let alone football...

Interesting?

A few decades ago I knew an English lady who lived in Japan. She said they treated the Chinese with respect, for having a long history.

 

[LFC]

D,
The general Japanese Chinese citizen would naturally show respect towards each other BUT politcally they are at each other for decades let alone century.
CCP wants to rule the ocean and this infuriates Japan, the properganda I have read in the China Daily for over 20yrs during my trips.
Territorial disputes, political tensions are very strong, the 2nd Sino war between them - the Senkaku Islands administered by Japan but claimed by China/Taiwan , there is lingering resentment on many fronts.
Your english friend from decades ago mustn't know much of the history.

 

[Cunningstunt]

D,
The general Japanese Chinese citizen would naturally show respect towards each other BUT politcally they are at each other for decades let alone century.
CCP wants to rule the ocean and this infuriates Japan, the properganda I have read in the China Daily for over 20yrs during my trips.
Territorial disputes, political tensions are very strong, the 2nd Sino war between them - the Senkaku Islands administered by Japan but claimed by China/Taiwan , there is lingering resentment on many fronts.
Your english friend from decades ago mustn't know much of the history.

This is obviously off topic, but the same thing applies re Vietnam and the US. You would think there would be a lot of hostility there from the war, but that was a small blip of time compared to the centuries they have been at it with their neighbours.