ALM/W TV deal

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Hey Mono, how good is Nuno Mendes, what a beast of a player.
Kept Salah in his back pocket in the qtrs of champions league, Kept Saka in his back pocket in the semis & the whole Inter team in the final.
He then kept Wirtz quiet & set Ronaldo up for winner in the semis of Nations cup then kept Yamine Lamal quiet while also providing a goal & an assist again for the great Ronaldo in the final.

Absolute beast of a full back I agree.. Whilst I dislike PSG as a club, can't argue they have some very fine players....

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

This isn't to say I wouldn't see a place for these teams, but they would have to come in to an already established and robust environment where big clubs are carrying the revenue load. Which we don't currently have.

Sure, but at the moment the "model" is to introduce brand new entities into these very same environments and it is clearly not working...

The conversation gets twisted up in terms of what an NPL club and what links ethnicity to old NSL clubs and it shouldn't ALWAYS be about that in my opinion... Poor SU58 gets scapegoated as a bastion of foreign nationalism but that's their prerogative and not ALL NPL clubs operate in the same way... Are you saying that introducing a franchise into an area like Western Victoria produced a better outcome than promoting an existing club (I dont know Caroline Springs George Cross for example) with a whole club full of players, juniors, women's team, board, medical staff, technical staff, coaches, volunteers and most importantly FANS behind it?

For the sake of immediate money the kingdom was lost...

 

[grazorblade]

I agree. I think I want as many professional clubs as possible. Then I work back from there.

A pyramid ecosystem for its own sake, or even to provide a more competitive league isn't enough. It needs to increase the value of the league and the revenue, with a view to enabling more professional squad places.

I don't think the traditional clubs help with this because they have not been able to transcend the ethnicity to the broader community (there might be a debate there, but I don't think a club like Syd utd could replicate what wsw did).

This isn't to say I wouldn't see a place for these teams, but they would have to come in to an already established and robust environment where big clubs are carrying the revenue load. Which we don't currently have.

I don't think they need to be pro, just strong enough to handle a national comp which many were. The benefits are quite substantial (see below, my own analysis) so no point waiting round for enough non-ethnic clubs to fill a 2nd tier

the elo in the above is for the national team

 

[BA81]

Fully agree with you with the APL, it's struggling for media attention bar the odd few games, but I too like you, have watched the game in this country for 50 years & nothing has changed, but if you think that some NPL clubs are going to change that, good luck I wish you well. I thought we tried those clubs & it was a complete disaster.
Even as an avid football fan Apia v Marconi or Sth Melb (sorry Mono & other Greeks) v Preston aint going to get too much media attention.

Not sure how you got that from what I said. I have no vision of 1 pro league. I stated clearly nothing has worked in the last 50 years in this country of watching football including the APL. None has captured the imagination of the general public.

The APL is struggling to capture the mainstream media, we both agree with that.

See, this is the problem right here - this incessant fixation w/capturing the imagination of ‘the general public’ and ‘the mainstream media’…

Spoiler alert: neither of them will ever genuinely care about ️, be it in or anywhere. And let’s be clear, their bandwagon-jumping for the Socceroos/‘Tillies or insert-touring-Euro powerhouse-club here counts for less than gnat-sh1t

 

[Cunningstunt]

Sure, but at the moment the "model" is to introduce brand new entities into these very same environments and it is clearly not working...

The conversation gets twisted up in terms of what an NPL club and what links ethnicity to old NSL clubs and it shouldn't ALWAYS be about that in my opinion... Poor SU58 gets scapegoated as a bastion of foreign nationalism but that's their prerogative and not ALL NPL clubs operate in the same way... Are you saying that introducing a franchise into an area like Western Victoria produced a better outcome than promoting an existing club (I dont know Caroline Springs George Cross for example) with a whole club full of players, juniors, women's team, board, medical staff, technical staff, coaches, volunteers and most importantly FANS behind it?

For the sake of immediate money the kingdom was lost...

Yeah I pretty much agree with everything you say here. The most recent Australian additions came in at an unfortunate time for the league in general which hampered their support. That being said, I'm not going to defend the recent expansion efforts, they haven't brought a great deal to the table.

I was writing a longer post, it's an interesting discussion about the traditional clubs, but I don't think it works online.

 

[HappyGuus]

Sky Sports viewing numbers were down 10 per cent last season to be broadly in line with the 2021-22 campaign. TNT Sports’ Saturday 12.30pm kick-off showed a 5 per cent drop on the 2023-24 season, and a 17 per cent drop with the two full midweek rounds — where some matches are played concurrently — included.

The numbers were presented to Premier League clubs at their annual meeting last week. Clubs were told Liverpool’s romp to the title without a serious challenge from Arsenal or Manchester City meant viewer numbers dropped off particularly over the last six weeks of the season — until then they had been close to the 2023-24 season.

The lack of a compelling relegation battle also affected interest towards the end of the campaign with Leicester City, Ipswich Town and Southampton effectively guaranteed to go down a couple of months before the end of the season.

Yeah that's an interesting point about pro/rel, there are no guarantees it will add viewers or interest. Pro/rel adds legitimacy and respect throughout the pyramid, but like this case in the current EPL, both ends of the table were wrapped up months in advance and killed off much interest. It's a win for us having a finals series. I still definitely want pro/rel, but it won't be for any ratings.

 

[Cunningstunt]

See, this is the problem right here - this incessant fixation w/capturing the imagination of ‘the general public’ and ‘the mainstream media’…

Spoiler alert: neither of them will ever genuinely care about ️, be it in or anywhere. And let’s be clear, their bandwagon-jumping for the Socceroos/‘Tillies or insert-touring-Euro powerhouse-club here counts for less than gnat-sh1t

When I say mainstream, I am talking about when MV would sell out 50k, WSW were selling out Parramatta etc and building on this. If you want football to reach the places we all want it to get to, it needs to reach the broader Aus audience. Currently it is niche, if you only want to appeal to 'football people', and ignore the rest of Aus, it will remain niche.

Not wanting to increase engagement with mainstream means you want to remain in the current position for the league and the sport. This is fine if that is what makes someone happy, but we can't then be upset about crowds, money, and ultimately how we do in world cups. All of it is linked.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Yeah that's an interesting point about pro/rel, there are no guarantees it will add viewers or interest. Pro/rel adds legitimacy and respect throughout the pyramid, but like this case in the current EPL, both ends of the table were wrapped up months in advance and killed off much interest. It's a win for us having a finals series. I still definitely want pro/rel, but it won't be for any ratings.

Does anyone believe that ratings for the EPL would have IMPROVED if there was NO pro/rel though, thats the point.

 

[BA81]

When I say mainstream, I am talking about when MV would sell out 50k, WSW were selling out Parramatta etc and building on this. If you want football to reach the places we all want it to get to, it needs to reach the broader Aus audience. Currently it is niche, if you only want to appeal to 'football people', and ignore the rest of Aus, it will remain niche.

Not wanting to increase engagement with mainstream means you want to remain in the current position for the league and the sport. This is fine if that is what makes someone happy, but we can't then be upset about crowds, money, and ultimately how we do in world cups. All of it is linked.

I disagree w/your last paragraph most specifically. We improve our stocks as a ️ nation by producing better players & coaches; we certainly don’t need a sycophant media/public-sector for that. We didn’t have the benefit of such things when Ange was progressing through his career at South Melbourne - heck, did the mainstream-media actually give anything slightly resembling a fvck that Ferenc Puskas, if you don’t mind, was actually coaching out here?

I’m not going to further entertain your however-well-intentioned naiveté, sorry. I’ve neither the time nor the burning inclination to do so

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Yeah I pretty much agree with everything you say here. The most recent Australian additions came in at an unfortunate time for the league in general which hampered their support. That being said, I'm not going to defend the recent expansion efforts, they haven't brought a great deal to the table.

I was writing a longer post, it's an interesting discussion about the traditional clubs, but I don't think it works online.

I think a great start is calling them "traditional" clubs as you did, as opposed to the clearly divisive "effnikz"

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

When I say mainstream, I am talking about when MV would sell out 50k, WSW were selling out Parramatta etc and building on this. If you want football to reach the places we all want it to get to, it needs to reach the broader Aus audience. Currently it is niche, if you only want to appeal to 'football people', and ignore the rest of Aus, it will remain niche.

Not wanting to increase engagement with mainstream means you want to remain in the current position for the league and the sport. This is fine if that is what makes someone happy, but we can't then be upset about crowds, money, and ultimately how we do in world cups. All of it is linked.

All I'll say to this is that a good house is built from the ground up.. Football in Australia should (again these are my opinions) look to try and appeal to ALL football tragics first before even thinking about broadening the mainstream appeal... The Aleague wiped the table of a generation of football followers... whether you hate or like the old "effnikz" this wasn't smart from a foundational perspective either.

 

[HappyGuus]

Does anyone believe that ratings for the EPL would have IMPROVED if there was NO pro/rel though, thats the point.

Excellent point. Well you've won me over easily hahaha.

 

[LFC]

Yeah that's an interesting point about pro/rel, there are no guarantees it will add viewers or interest. Pro/rel adds legitimacy and respect throughout the pyramid, but like this case in the current EPL, both ends of the table were wrapped up months in advance and killed off much interest. It's a win for us having a finals series. I still definitely want pro/rel, but it won't be for any ratings.

I think you missed a very important point Sutho made few more posts later.... :
"People are refusing to pay the exorbitant prices the satellite channels are charging and turning to firesticks."

Another point is the suits as MCG calls em would expect Increase's every season no matter what transpires, well this doesn't happen pretty obvious for there is many other pieces to puzzles and you CAN'T expect growth time and time again there will always be DIPS whereas the media/only report the numbers, sound familiar about how many see the game here.

Therefore this is no blueprint what works or not - absolutley there is no guarantee and bugga the numbers when your starting from such a low low base thats part of the prob here, get the Championship going first up, lets go from there see what can be made of it, in the meantime watch your finals least it helps reduce the current black hole.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Excellent point. Well you've won me over easily hahaha.

hahahahahah few, thats a relief... now onto fixing the Aleague... lol

 

[Robbos]

See, this is the problem right here - this incessant fixation w/capturing the imagination of ‘the general public’ and ‘the mainstream media’…

Spoiler alert: neither of them will ever genuinely care about ️, be it in or anywhere. And let’s be clear, their bandwagon-jumping for the Socceroos/‘Tillies or insert-touring-Euro powerhouse-club here counts for less than gnat-sh1t

Isn't that the name of the game, isn't it why the Rugby League powers put the State of Origin in Perth last week, isn't this why the AFL put a club in Western Sydney, where there is next to no interest & not in Tasmania, where AFL is huge. This is how you grow the game.
You just want to think small.

I know lots of Socceroos/Tillies fans only or touring Euro powerhouse supporters & they are football fans, they may not understand what a 3-5-1-1 formation is or the reason why Triantis should start for the Socceroos, but they go to games & buy merchandise.

Football is a lot bigger than the diehards like myself, who attends all the games, mark the lines every Saturday morning at my local club, drink beer afterwards to discuss how that foul that was not picked up changed the whole course of the game.

 

[Cunningstunt]

I disagree w/your last paragraph most specifically. We improve our stocks as a ️ nation by producing better players & coaches; we certainly don’t need a sycophant media/public-sector for that. We didn’t have the benefit of such things when Ange was progressing through his career at South Melbourne - heck, did the mainstream-media actually give anything slightly resembling a fvck that Ferenc Puskas, if you don’t mind, was actually coaching out here?

I’m not going to further entertain your however-well-intentioned naiveté, sorry. I’ve neither the time nor the burning inclination to do so

Saying we need to produce better coaches and players is a roundabout way of saying we need more money. This is how it is done. For example, we need to maximise the opportunities for players/coaches to be professional, this is tied directly to revenue. AFL, NRL, Cricket know it, for better and worse, Gallop, Buckley, O'Neill all knew it.
The solution is far more complex than anything I could offer. But one part of it is a mainstream media partner who wants to build the game and the product. Fox did this in the early years (before Delaney wrote off the sport). Ten, to their credit have tried. Nine would offer a bigger opportunity if it were presented.

All I'll say to this is that a good house is built from the ground up.. Football in Australia should (again these are my opinions) look to try and appeal to ALL football tragics first before even thinking about broadening the mainstream appeal... The Aleague wiped the table of a generation of football followers... whether you hate or like the old "effnikz" this wasn't smart from a foundational perspective either.

Possibly, maybe we disagree on that point. I will say if my club was excluded I'm not picking a new team in the competition. Loyalties definitely lie with the club.
Edit: I also understand the bitterness about it. I know there are a couple of SM guys on twitter who are a bit infamous, granted there is a bit of carry on from them, but the bitterness I get.

 

[Robbos]

All I'll say to this is that a good house is built from the ground up.. Football in Australia should (again these are my opinions) look to try and appeal to ALL football tragics first before even thinking about broadening the mainstream appeal... The Aleague wiped the table of a generation of football followers... whether you hate or like the old "effnikz" this wasn't smart from a foundational perspective either.

There is no hate, not now, no longer.
When the A-League was at its peak, yes agree it's in the doldrums now, my group at SFC included, myself Portuguese heritage & friends from Multiculture backgrounds, Croatians, Italians, Greeks, English, Dutch backgrounds & of course Aussies.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

There is no hate, not now, no longer.
When the A-League was at its peak, yes agree it's in the doldrums now, my group at SFC included, myself Portuguese heritage & friends from Multiculture backgrounds, Croatians, Italians, Greeks, English, Dutch backgrounds & of course Aussies.

There is that "multiculturalism" word again... Who cares Robbo what ethnicity your group of fellow fans is?
I certainly don't nor do care what ethnicity my fellow fans at South Melbourne are... I'd find it a little rude to even ask to be honest.
Why should ANYONE? I scratch my head... Aren't we ALL supposed to be Australians in the eyes of the law, if not general society?

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Possibly, maybe we disagree on that point. I will say if my club was excluded I'm not picking a new team in the competition. Loyalties definitely lie with the club.
Edit: I also understand the bitterness about it. I know there are a couple of SM guys on twitter who are a bit infamous, granted there is a bit of carry on from them, but the bitterness I get.

Thats what the sticking point seems to be universally these days.

Im talking about club loyalty and other seem to think that implies "effnikz" loyalty....

Im with you 100% loyalty lives and dies with the club as the basic unit of connection ... CLUB is everything... system and league is irrelevant.

 

[Robbos]

There is that "multiculturalism" word again... Who cares Robbo what ethnicity your group of fellow fans is?
I certainly don't nor do care what ethnicity my fellow fans at South Melbourne are... I'd find it a little rude to even ask to be honest.
Why should ANYONE? I scratch my head... Aren't we ALL supposed to be Australians in the eyes of the law, if not general society?

No I didn't need to ask. Maybe the countries they followed during Euros or their last names gave me a hint of their heritage, I don't know, all I know is yes they were all Aussies following an Aussie team in an Aussie competition.