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Best overseas leagues for Aussies?

Sutherlandbear said:
A lot of them are English, furfuxsake.
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And some played very few minutes in the epl

And he also included burgess who did his development in australia and never played for a scottish club and it is the usefulness of non-celtic/rangers scottish clubs for improving players that is under question, not the ability of those with scottish dna
 
No matter dual argument point is if you want to get picky how many are full blooded scots and in the epl - looks way more than we will ever have that’s for sure !
Young Doak has oddles of promise @ 19yrs and is Jnr Delray Ayr Hoops onwards.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
No in my book.

Cieran Slicker is English, born in England and plays for England under 21's.

If you want to go down that route, they are actually, ALL BRITISH.
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grazorblade said:
And some played very few minutes in the epl

And he also included burgess who did his development in australia and never played for a scottish club and it is the usefulness of non-celtic/rangers scottish clubs for improving players that is under question, not the ability of those with scottish dna
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So you are saying Burgess isn't Scottish.

He was born in Aberdeen. He was on loan at Ross County but never played.
 
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Lurker said:
So you are saying Burgess isn't Scottish.

He was born in Aberdeen. He was on loan at Ross County but never played.
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His birthplace is immaterial to the question at hand - is the scottish premier league, outside the glasgow 2, a good league for aussies (assuming they have other options of course)

Burgess grew up in australia and spent his club career entirely in england so not a good example
 
grazorblade said:
His birthplace is immaterial to the question at hand - is the scottish premier league, outside the glasgow 2, a good league for aussies (assuming they have other options of course)

Burgess grew up in australia and spent his club career entirely in england so not a good example
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So his loan from Fulham to Ross County doesn't count as part of his club career?

He moved to Australia as an eleven year old so his formative years were in Scotland..
 
Lurker said:
It is still part of his career.
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the value of getting splinters for a year for ross county clearly is strong evidence that if an aussie player has an option other than scotland they should prefer scotland, never mind the hoofball style being poorer prep than similar quality leagues....
 
grazorblade said:
the value of getting splinters for a year for ross county clearly is strong evidence that if an aussie player has an option other than scotland they should prefer scotland, never mind the hoofball style being poorer prep than similar quality leagues....
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What is hoofball? I understand it to be football played on horses.
 
Lurker said:
What is hoofball? I understand it to be football played on horses.
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The discussion is getting way off track. The original point was about the usefulness of three Scottish league for development. I don't think naming layers who can technically play for Scotland really speaks to this.

Grazors point about 450 passes in a match is valid about indicating the type of league it is. These are generalities and there are always exceptions, eg rangers, Celtic etc.
 
Whats funny is Andy Robertson was dropped by Celtic and it wasn't till he got to England that he reached his potential lol
 
jas88 said:
Whats funny is Andy Robertson was dropped by Celtic and it wasn't till he got to England that he reached his potential lol
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that true jas88 - I think thats part of what you go through though eh as a budding hopeful making it.....
Sometimes your own home system just isn't going to give you the chance.
Celtic didn't like what they saw he goes elsewhere and prospers, similar in a small degree re Volpato and another from here that escapes me.
The rest is history.
I think it shows the lack of vision by TD's but at the sametime no one is perfect at any given job in developing or recruiting.
 
Cunningstunt said:
The discussion is getting way off track. The original point was about the usefulness of three Scottish league for development. I don't think naming layers who can technically play for Scotland really speaks to this.

Grazors point about 450 passes in a match is valid about indicating the type of league it is. These are generalities and there are always exceptions, eg rangers, Celtic etc.
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??? Sorry what now? You rate a league by how many passes are made? What fresh statistical sorcery is this?
 
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Cunningstunt said:
The discussion is getting way off track. The original point was about the usefulness of three Scottish league for development. I don't think naming layers who can technically play for Scotland really speaks to this.

Grazors point about 450 passes in a match is valid about indicating the type of league it is. These are generalities and there are always exceptions, eg rangers, Celtic etc.
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Fair point sir.
Though is pass counts the bar the bar - is it that black and white ? oh its one stat that those who are into it back up their pov.
What about the conditions ?
Is it that defense is better stifling possesion ?
AL is played in summer on firmer dry tracks for eg, they pass and pass so does that mean its better that X leagues ?

One thing I do see comparing SPL to AL - they have something to lose, fear of relegation, they have alot more players going to better leagues than us despite picking away at the SPL.
I think the SPL as much as its not a league I follow would be a challenge period for our players - you either put up or shut up and seems many shut up don't cut it becuase its not a good league style ?
Madness to me.
Are we now having to baby our young boys because SPL doesn't play tika taka ?
Come on.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
??? Sorry what now? You rate a league by how many passes are made? What fresh statistical sorcery is this?
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It's not really about rating it or not. SPL is probably higher standard than Aleague so it is good players go up a step in quality/intensity (I don't really know I only watch Aleague).

But a low number of passes indicates a certain style of play which has strengths and weaknesses. Is this somewhere that will be good for developing our players to perform for the socceroos? That is the thing which interests me. I think for Aus players, we fit quite easily into the Scottish league, the strengths of this league are something we already do pretty well. So there are better places they can go where they will be challenged and develop more.
 
Lurker said:
There are actually more than 20:

Andrew Robertson Liverpool
Ryan Christie Bournemouth
Ben Doak Liverpool
Nathan Patterson Everton
Scott McKenna Nottingham Forest
John McGinn Aston Villa
Kieran Tierney Arsenal
Aaron Hickey Brentford
Ryan Fraser Newcastle United
James McArthur Crystal Palace
Tom Cairney Fulham
Matt Targett Newcastle United
Tino Livramento Newcastle United
Harrison Ashby Newcastle United
Harvey Barnes Newcastle United
Elliot Anderson Nottingham Forest
Justin Devenny Crystal Palace
Andre Irving West Ham
Archie Gray Tottenham
Harry Soutar Leicester City
Ben Nelson Leicester City
Cieran Slicker Ipswich Town
Cameron Burgess Ipswich Town
George Hirst Ipswich Town
Ryan Fraser Southampton
Ross Stewart Southampton

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Proper Scots, very few and then the rest play for other national teams. It's easy to have Scottish links when it was just about travelling, drinking and flipping your kilt up.
 
LFC said:
Sometimes your own home system just isn't going to give you the chance.
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I think it also shows how ruthless academies can be if you aren't certain height or develop certain traits they just aren't interested. But usually its the guys who get rejected then go on to make a good career. I remember the Cahill doco where all the aussie coaches said he'd never make it, too small and his old man told em to get fucked and took him to england haha
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
??? Sorry what now? You rate a league by how many passes are made? What fresh statistical sorcery is this?
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pass count is not a measure of quality it is a measure of style
elo is what I use for quality

spfl does worse at transfers to higher clubs than other euro leagues of similar elo (I did the analysis on 442). I believe that this is because they have a different style to every other league in Europe. If you transfer from the spfl you have to adapt to a bigger change in style as well as a step up in quality whereas leagues with a similar elo you have to only make an adjustment in quality

younger players have a better chance of doing this as the concrete hasn't set and the spfl does similarly well to other leagues with a similar elo if the player leaves at a young age
 
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