Best overseas leagues for Aussies?

[Decentric]

I’ve just heard that Arzani might be going to Aberdeen.

The big problem I have with Scotland, unless Aussies go to Rangers or Celtic, is players don’t improve technically, tactically, only ball winning.

Nisbet and Nieuw were doing well before they went there. What has happened?

The off the ball movement to support the player on the ball is poor in most Scottish teams I’ve seen.

I think it is worse going there than staying in the AL after watching Scottish Cup games. At least the style of the AL means players tend to improve.

 

[LFC]

It’s the lack of competition here that’s the issue and games.
Nothing to lose might I add, it’s a luxury staying here and being soft.

 

[dr. bellows]

I’ve just heard that Arzani might be going to Aberdeen.

The big problem I have with Scotland, unless Aussies go to Rangers or Celtic, is players don’t improve technically, tactically, only ball winning.

Nisbet and Nieuw were doing well before they went there. What has happened?

The off the ball movement to support the player on the ball is poor in most Scottish teams I’ve seen.

I think it is worse going there than staying in the AL after watching Scottish Cup games. At least the style of the AL means players tend to improve.

Where's the Arzani to Aberdeen rumour come from? I've only seen him being linked to Hearts. Aberdeen wouldn't be great but it would certainly be an improvement on Hearts given the awful football that McInnes teams typically play.

 

[rebelliousfeminist974]

I’ve just heard that Arzani might be going to Aberdeen.

The big problem I have with Scotland, unless Aussies go to Rangers or Celtic, is players don’t improve technically, tactically, only ball winning.

Nisbet and Nieuw were doing well before they went there. What has happened?

The off the ball movement to support the player on the ball is poor in most Scottish teams I’ve seen.

I think it is worse going there than staying in the AL after watching Scottish Cup games. At least the style of the AL means players tend to improve.

To be honest I don't think Nisbet or Nieuwenhof are regressing since they made the move to Scotland but they haven't gotten as much game time over there as they had in the A-League and the intensity is much higher as well so that may play a part also.

 

[DandyCasey]

Done some off season recon on ex Perth Glory centreback, Jacob Muir whom caught my eye as value at number 6. Breaking lines, ball carrying, passing...... Solid defensively as one would expect.

Unsure why any Aussie would move from the A-league to the USL, looks physical and like it's full of AFL athlete types.

 

[Decentric]

Where's the Arzani to Aberdeen rumour come from? I've only seen him being linked to Hearts. Aberdeen wouldn't be great but it would certainly be an improvement on Hearts given the awful football that McInnes teams typically play.

Actually, I might be wrong!

Simon Hill alluded to it. It might have been Hearts?

 

[Decentric]

To be honest I don't think Nisbet or Nieuwenhof are regressing since they made the move to Scotland but they haven't gotten as much game time over there as they had in the A-League and the intensity is much higher as well so that may play a part also.

Respectfully disagree, RB.

In Aus 15 years ago, there has been a massive metamorphosis and onus in coach education as to how to support the ball carrier or player on the ball.

The Aus FFA studied a massive amount at Barca, French Clairefontaine, the Dutch KNVB at Zeist, and, brought Dutch coaches to Aus. A massive amount has been done to have players move diagonally left and right, plus sharper diagonal passing lanes, short and long, in order to open 4 possible passing lanes for the the ball carrier to pass to.

This phenomenon is apparent in the AL much more than in Scotland.

Scotland is probably played at a faster tempo in a winter season in a cool climate country, compared to the AL being played in a hot country in summer.

Nisbet was playing for the Socceroos before going to Scotland. Niew played some good Aus u23 games and AL games. Yet they seem to be off the Socceroo radar. Why? Both were skilled on the ball. In different ways they were decent off the ball too.

When watching Scottish football, in Ball Possession the off the ball movement isn't as apparent as it is in the AL. The off the ball movement of the AL players to support the ball carrier, enables teams to enjoy longer periods of possession than one observes in Scotland.

In Scotland, there are more turn overs. Teams are constantly battling for the ball. AL teams and Socceroos, are a worse version of the way France, Argentina, Netherlands and Spain try to play.

Based on raw stats, AL players on average probably touch the ball twice as much per game as Scottish players do.

The style of football played in the AL extrapolates better to international football than the second ball, very physical Scottish game.

 

[Decentric]

Done some off season recon on ex Perth Glory centreback, Jacob Muir whom caught my eye as value at number 6. Breaking lines, ball carrying, passing...... Solid defensively as one would expect.

Unsure why any Aussie would move from the A-league to the USL, looks physical and like it's full of AFL athlete types.

What has happened to Lachlan Brook in the USA?

He was progressing well for the Aus u23s and WSW.

 

[Quicky]

To be honest I don't think Nisbet or Nieuwenhof are regressing since they made the move to Scotland but they haven't gotten as much game time over there as they had in the A-League and the intensity is much higher as well so that may play a part also.

Agree with this. I think it gets overblown.

 

[LFC]

its interesting comments/assumptions/why X players form here are not getting game time in the SPL.
Despite what analyists say of league differences - no matter the style of play it is more competitive than here.
It has P/R.
There is no rest for the wicked, its either put up or shut up.
The league is viewed and known all over EU.
Some of the best known scottish players became Legends moving on from the SPL background, And also many imports made names of themselves there and expanding their careers even some of our own.
Even though 2 clubs are the usual suspects and compete in CL/Europa it still provides huge challenges for any of our up and comers who done well here and no matter its stat of play OR Club, THE player either adjusts shows their worth and earn start up pick week in week out.
Excuse mongering imo if your not with Celtic/Rangers, IF you are good enough and show your above the Club where you play why hasn't either of the top 2 looked to buy you ? let alone elsewhere.

McTominay was ear marked by United from a early age.
Legend LFC Andy Robertson - started youth at the Hoops, then to Queens Park, Dundee United then to Hull to LFC.

 

[Barca4life]

It would be cool to get more players playing in the top 5 leagues or the best leagues outside of it but unfortunately the reputation for our players is not there to get those kind of moves plus it’s very competitive to get a chance in any case.

If it means playing in leagues like in Scotland where the quality is not the highest in Europe then so be it, I rather they to try and dominate that league and if they good enough they will move to higher up team or league as there reputation and transfer fee has gone up.

For me the MLS is slowing becoming an interesting league of choice and I would not have said this in the past but the standard is getting more stronger each season plus they have the money to burn and get who ever they want I.e Messi.

It’s a league especially a target for young players from South America and even in Europe plus i don’t think there is a stigma attached to Australian players if it was in Europe so it might slowly be a league for choice for our players if European clubs don’t want to look at our players.

 

[Decentric]

In the case of Scotland, players who I think have decidedly improved in terms of skill set in - first touch, handling speed, movement off the ball to support the ball carrier, rapidfire passing and moving in tight spaces, 1v1 dribbling skills, range of passing, are few.

Baccus is one player who I think has improved in these facets of play. Was he destined for improvement anyway, or anywhere he played?

We have two successive national team coaches, Arnie and Popa, who evaluate Scotland quite differently from each other, based on who they select for the Socceroos.

 

[DandyCasey]

What has happened to Lachlan Brook in the USA?

He was progressing well for the Aus u23s and WSW.

Struggling for game time in the MLS it seems.... Big drop in standard from the MLS to USL by the looks as well as stylistic contrasts.

 

[LFC]

well least Baccus got plucked and playing EFL third level - on a free might I add.
He's 27yrs - no young bloomer anymore I'd say he's learnt from experience by now more than anything no matter where he played.

Despite Arnie/Poppa seeing the SPL differently it all comes down to the picks, alot of ours are in the SPL, are you going to shy away from that - don't think you have much choice but to take each player on merit no matter where from.
Maybe Nisbet/Nieuwenhoff can't mix well with their current club/team mates, maybe they struggle playing their game, therefore you have to adjust, maybe they are being neglected, re Roos maybe IF Poppa went out on the limb gave them some Roo game time they would shine being amongst fellow aussies.
Its not all stats and figures its alot to do in your soul as well.

For many "hopefuls" those who shined locally are not comfortable climatising abroad whatsoever ????
Its kind of showing in some over the recent years.
King, had a stellar few years here, got a great triple figure release to the Danish club back within a season and infact gone backwards since.
One who I really felt would kick on was Gersbach, his early couple of Roo games he showed such promise, he became a nomad in EU 4 odd yrs - he quoted very happily back home recently.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

well least Baccus got plucked and playing EFL third level - on a free might I add.
He's 27yrs - no young bloomer anymore I'd say he's learnt from experience by now more than anything no matter where he played.

Despite Arnie/Poppa seeing the SPL differently it all comes down to the picks, alot of ours are in the SPL, are you going to shy away from that - don't think you have much choice but to take each player on merit no matter where from.
Maybe Nisbet/Nieuwenhoff can't mix well with their current club/team mates, maybe they struggle playing their game, therefore you have to adjust, maybe they are being neglected, re Roos maybe IF Poppa went out on the limb gave them some Roo game time they would shine being amongst fellow aussies.
Its not all stats and figures its alot to do in your soul as well.

For many "hopefuls" those who shined locally are not comfortable climatising abroad whatsoever ????
Its kind of showing in some over the recent years.
King, had a stellar few years here, got a great triple figure release to the Danish club back within a season and infact gone backwards since.
One who I really felt would kick on was Gersbach, his early couple of Roo games he showed such promise, he became a nomad in EU 4 odd yrs - he quoted very happily back home recently.

Not sure why these young Aleague superstars need to improve their technical game at all? Arent they being coached in the worlds best practice curriculum?... If anything Scottish players and coaching staff should be learning from them.

 

[vo2Max]

t would be cool to get more players playing in the top 5 leagues or the best leagues outside of it but unfortunately the reputation for our players is not there

Gone are those days.

A clear example of the wasted years and money when our dopey FA bet the farm on two-bob third-rate KNVB methodology.

We almost instantly went backwards at the rate of knots and there are still no signs of a recovery.

 

[LFC]

It would be cool to get more players playing in the top 5 leagues or the best leagues outside of it but unfortunately the reputation for our players is not there to get those kind of moves plus it’s very competitive to get a chance in any case.

If it means playing in leagues like in Scotland where the quality is not the highest in Europe then so be it, I rather they to try and dominate that league and if they good enough they will move to higher up team or league as there reputation and transfer fee has gone up.

For me the MLS is slowing becoming an interesting league of choice and I would not have said this in the past but the standard is getting more stronger each season plus they have the money to burn and get who ever they want I.e Messi.

It’s a league especially a target for young players from South America and even in Europe plus i don’t think there is a stigma attached to Australian players if it was in Europe so it might slowly be a league for choice for our players if European clubs don’t want to look at our players.

reputation Barca is earn't on the pitch week in week out - hence hardly enough in the league below Top5.
Reminds me strangley of the highs we used to take for granted in tennis and for sometime swimming though we have come back a little in that code.
Tennis the 60/70/80's we had some epic players, No1's, some winning slams and even great doubles pairings.
IF it wasn't for Barty finally winning our Open in '22 we go back 44yrs for the previous one Oneil in '78.

Football is a massive challenge no matter where as we know and worse being out here far far away and a system that broke down yet we have others convinced its working.
Sure it has some merit - more professional, great intel, oh the intel is intoxicating how much you know but its on the grass, the dance floor for 90mins is your time to shine, we are hanging on - lucky we have understood how to get through WC quali, that is our only saving grace for the headlines but it hides the turmoil beneath.

 

[jas88]

When watching Scottish football, in Ball Possession the off the ball movement isn't as apparent as it is in the AL. The off the ball movement of the AL players to support the ball carrier, enables teams to enjoy longer periods of possession than one observes in Scotland.

In Scotland, there are more turn overs. Teams are constantly battling for the ball. AL teams and Socceroos, are a worse version of the way France, Argentina, Netherlands and Spain try to play.

Based on raw stats, AL players on average probably touch the ball twice as much per game as Scottish players do.

The style of football played in the AL extrapolates better to international football than the second ball, very physical Scottish game.

You make some very good points, my concern comes down to who advises these moves? as a midfielder in the a-league your biggest issue moving to a bigger league is adjusting to the speed of play, learning to play in tight areas, less time on the ball, more professional environment (pro/rel).

As a midfielder in one of the lower teams in the SPFL you are not going to improve these aspects, most of the time you may improve ball winning ability and increase work rate/stamina - but I would argue these are not traits aussies struggle with, they need to go learn how to dictate a game with tempo, how to retain possession better, how to play forward passes into dangerous areas, etc. You just wont get this at a mid table SPFL team. You will be expected to fight for every point sit deep, defend, defend and defend.

I expect Nisbet to hit the ground running in Holland. Much better place for him.

 

[Decentric]

Not sure why these young Aleague superstars need to improve their technical game at all? Arent they being coached in the worlds best practice curriculum?... If anything Scottish players and coaching staff should be learning from them.

Aussies are being coached in a similar way to France, Netherlands, Spain, Germany, Belgium - but they are first world football nations.

They have no competition from Aussie Rules, union, cricket, league, etc, to suck up resources. Actually France has decent league and union teams, but football gets front, middle and back of the sports page media coverage in the aforementioned. Football also gets the lion's share of corporate support and usually has access to the top athletes.

Conversely, in Aus there is virtually no mainstream media coverage and football is starved of funds or corporate sponsorship. Plus many talented athletes play other sports in Aus.

 

[vo2Max]

Aussies are being coached in a similar way to France, Netherlands, Spain, Germany, Belgium - but they are first world football nations.

They have no competition from Aussie Rules, union, cricket, league, etc, to suck up resources. Actually France has decent league and union teams, but football gets front, middle and back of the sports page media coverage in the aforementioned. Football also gets the lion's share of corporate support and usually has access to the top athletes.

Conversely, in Aus there is virtually no mainstream media coverage and football is starved of funds or corporate sponsorship. Plus many talented athletes play other sports in Aus.

The NSL (before you started following sockah) and the associated junior/youth development system of that era was run on the smell of an oily rag but managed to deliver top shelf world class players to top 5 euro leagues.

Clueless old codger still trying to justify his certificate of participation at some hick coaching course delivered by some dope with a dutch accent.

Your delusion remains next level.