Expansion Thread

[Frankly Speaking]

The bottom line is that the only attractive proposition for an expansion club in Australia, based on population, derby potential, and stadium is Gold Coast. No one should let Palmer's mess convince them that a GC club can't work. It can and it would.

I'm going for gold and blue vertical stripes on the shirt, blue shorts and gold socks...

 

[Vieri]

The bottom line is that the only attractive proposition for an expansion club in Australia, based on population, derby potential, and stadium is Gold Coast. No one should let Palmer's mess convince them that a GC club can't work. It can and it would.

I'm going for gold and blue vertical stripes on the shirt, blue shorts and gold socks...

I have to disagree.

GC is definitely an option for the future, but we need to tap into football reservoirs first. GC showed that despite a stadium and setup, from DAY ONE there was just no support from a grassroots level.

This is because GC population is more transient. That's why sports like basketball (incoming), which has global reach, NRL (which has semi-global reach) and AFL (australia-wide support) will always do better there.

AFL itself struggled early on - if that's an indication of anything!

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

The bottom line is that the only attractive proposition for an expansion club in Australia, based on population, derby potential, and stadium is Gold Coast. No one should let Palmer's mess convince them that a GC club can't work. It can and it would.

I'm going for gold and blue vertical stripes on the shirt, blue shorts and gold socks...

What about a good old "half 'n halfer"? I like the 120 year Hellas one from Italy.

 

[Kitwally]

Titans seem to average about 15K, over 20K for Broncos games in 2024.
Suns also averaged 15K in 2024.
I can’t see a Gold Coast football team getting more than 5K, except for games against Roar. So then you’ve got another Clive Palmer, QLD Fury, MacArthur, Western United situation with the new expansion team dragging down the league’s crowd averages and all the negativity that goes with that.

 

[biggiemic]

Perth 2 would be a terrible idea.

The only reason that the Glory still get any semblance of crowds is due to the parochial support of the rusted ons with a couple thousand fairweathers.

Take away the fair weathers with a new club and you risk Glory simply folding altogether.

I'm on the other side with this. In terms of crowds and support, I actually think a second Perth team would work provided
they play at a different stadium.

A second team would more than likely lead to Glory lifting its game. A successful Glory on the pitch has 10k each game no dramas. The fans are there, the glory have just been rabble on and off the pitch.

The new team would need to be North based, to try capture the poms. The area imo has as good, if not better potential, than any area in Australia. Similar to when the Wanderers entered the league, massively untapped potential.

Problem is nobody is willing to throw $$$$ at a new team. A new rectangular stadium in Joondalup would be epic and could easily see 20k crowds.

Would like to here the thoughts of any other people who are familiar with Perth.

 

[someguyjc]

Titans seem to average about 15K, over 20K for Broncos games in 2024.
Suns also averaged 15K in 2024.
I can’t see a Gold Coast football team getting more than 5K, except for games against Roar. So then you’ve got another Clive Palmer, QLD Fury, MacArthur, Western United situation with the new expansion team dragging down the league’s crowd averages and all the negativity that goes with that.

I reckon a Gold Coast (or any QLD team) would get much better crowds in a Winter comp. Summer does them no favours. High temps. High rainfall. Also competing with the summer lifestyle and summer activities. Also everyone seems to be in bed by 8pm. Compare that to Winter, when the weather is comfortable and dry. No daylight savings either, so they'd align with the rest of the east coast.
That being said, I don't think any new (non promoted) team would pull big numbers from the start, regardless of geography. Maybe back when WSW were introduced, but not now. People are too cautious. Way less money to lure people with 'big names'. Any new club would need to prove themselves first.

 

[Frankly Speaking]

I have to disagree.

GC is definitely an option for the future, but we need to tap into football reservoirs first. GC showed that despite a stadium and setup, from DAY ONE there was just no support from a grassroots level.

This is because GC population is more transient. That's why sports like basketball (incoming), which has global reach, NRL (which has semi-global reach) and AFL (australia-wide support) will always do better there.

AFL itself struggled early on - if that's an indication of anything!

Having been a foundation member, I strongly and respectfully disagree. The support was there, but Palmer screwed the pooch, to borrow a line from All the Right Stuff. It is not at all accurate to say there was "no" support from grassroots.

Secondly, the GC population is about 750k now, and the "transient population" trope is a thing of the past, and I speak from the knowledge of association.

Finally, AFL struggling is a bit of furphy. GC is NRL country. AFL was always going to struggle.

 

[Frankly Speaking]

Titans seem to average about 15K, over 20K for Broncos games in 2024.
Suns also averaged 15K in 2024.
I can’t see a Gold Coast football team getting more than 5K, except for games against Roar. So then you’ve got another Clive Palmer, QLD Fury, MacArthur, Western United situation with the new expansion team dragging down the league’s crowd averages and all the negativity that goes with that.

We are all guessing, but based on early GC United, 8k av is a conservative expectation, with up to 12 for big games and 15k for the derby, perhaps more.

I really do think people outside the Coast underestimate the population growth and the changes in the structure of the community.

As for climate, no different to Brisbane. Night games essential, tho we've seen how the APL crucifies Brisbane with their scheduling.

 

[NoMates]

You guys are predicting crowds when there is none up in QLD, wot was the crowd the last time Roar took a home game to the Gold Coast?> 3k?> Now look at when Wellington took home games to Auckland they got crowds of over 20k and no less then 10k, same with Christchurch with 14k crowds. There big numbers and the potential was there for Auckland and it has been proven now - same thing would happen with Christchurch. But yet u wanna flog a dead horse in way of Gold Coast?. Maybe the Sunshine coast would be more suited to a new ALM side but where would they play?.

 

[Vieri]

Maybe the Sunshine coast would be more suited to a new ALM side but where would they play?.

Didn't they just invest in the stadium up there?

 

[ashtongate]

A second Adelaide team would be absurd. Way too small and it's taken them until the last few years to get anywhere near capacity at Coopers.

Besides a very tiny band of NSL bitters there's no demand for a second team.

As I said in my previous reply Brisbane definitely needs a second team (ie. Strikers) and Wollongong needs to come in.

Macarthur needs to either merge with the Rams NPL team or fold.

Adelaide were getting capacity crowds at Hindmarsh since Day 1 of the A League.
But I agree, a second Adelaide team would not work right now.

 

[Vieri]

Adelaide were getting capacity crowds at Hindmarsh since Day 1 of the A League.
But I agree, a second Adelaide team would not work right now.

It never did really, the only reason that West Adelaide lasted for 21 years was because it was backed by the greek community.

 

[TheSelectFew]

100% The way AFL and NRl tackle the problem is by having heavy representation in 1-2 states and not needing the travelling supporter to the 1-2 team towns....

Which is why a 2nd div in Syd and Melb is more practical.

 

[Kitwally]

Which is why a 2nd div in Syd and Melb is more practical.

Agree! But football fans from other states would not be happy. “Not national. An East coast league”.

 

[TheSelectFew]

Agree! But football fans from other states would not be happy. “Not national. An East coast league”.

Whatever happened to fish where the fish are.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Which is why a 2nd div in Syd and Melb is more practical.

Cant argue against that.

 

[TheSelectFew]

Cant argue against that.

I'm shocked.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I'm shocked.

I would LOVE for all states to be involved not only in the Championship but also in National NPL tier below that.... reality is that a geographic representation is ONLY sustainable if there are strong clubs in each geography to sustain it.. The ULTIMATE goal is always to have the best performing clubs on and off the pitch playing in the highest possible leagues.. IF that means to top division in the country is 1/2 Sydney, 1/2 Melbourne or even all Sydney clubs then so be it.. Ive never been against it. Just want an avenue for clubs to be able to achieve bigger and better things... NOT to be mandated according to some sort of "fish where the money is" franchise bullshit.

Believe what you will about me but to be honest Im not even 100% comfortable with the whole "8 foundation clubs" thing.. I would much rather the 16 x clubs in this years Championship were the top two clubs in their respective leagues... if South miss out, they miss out bad luck.....

 

[patjennings]

I would LOVE for all states to be involved not only in the Championship but also in National NPL tier below that.... reality is that a geographic representation is ONLY sustainable if there are strong clubs in each geography to sustain it.. The ULTIMATE goal is always to have the best performing clubs on and off the pitch playing in the highest possible leagues.. IF that means to top division in the country is 1/2 Sydney, 1/2 Melbourne or even all Sydney clubs then so be it.. Ive never been against it. Just want an avenue for clubs to be able to achieve bigger and better things... NOT to be mandated according to some sort of "fish where the money is" franchise bullshit.

Believe what you will about me but to be honest Im not even 100% comfortable with the whole "8 foundation clubs" thing.. I would much rather the 16 x clubs in this years Championship were the top two clubs in their respective leagues... if South miss out, they miss out bad luck.....

I'm happy with the 8 foundation clubs this season and with a 'national representation' to start with for the first home and away seasons. After that P & R needs to be happen both up and down. Clubs going up from the NPL should be able to show they can sustain themselves. Clubs going to the ALM would have shown they can survive so just need to ensure that lighting is right for the broadcasters.

No club should be protected from relegation or stopped from promotion as long as they meet the minimum requirement for the division.

 

[vincenzogold]

I mean the FFA cup has shown there should be no issues with NPL teams playing in the top division. What's the difference between it being an a league team or an npl team??