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Green & Gold FC Podcast #4 - Are A-League Crowds on the Rise?

Pasquali

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We begin with our thoughts on our latest South Melbourne episode before turning our attention to Auckland FC’s impressive A-League debut. With strong crowds and standout performances, why is this expansion team thriving while others struggle?

Is the league’s overall trajectory positive or concerning? Graham's got the stats to break it all down.

We then discuss which NPL clubs are truly capable of stepping up to Australia’s top tier.

Finally, we explore the upcoming national second tier and examine how New Zealand clubs could fit into Australia’s football pyramid.

Tune in for in-depth analysis and much more on Green and Gold FC.



 
We begin with our thoughts on our latest South Melbourne episode before turning our attention to Auckland FC’s impressive A-League debut. With strong crowds and standout performances, why is this expansion team thriving while others struggle?

Is the league’s overall trajectory positive or concerning? Graham's got the stats to break it all down.

We then discuss which NPL clubs are truly capable of stepping up to Australia’s top tier.

Finally, we explore the upcoming national second tier and examine how New Zealand clubs could fit into Australia’s football pyramid.

Tune in for in-depth analysis and much more on Green and Gold FC.




Tasty bunch of topics, will give this a listen soon....
 
I've got up to the 21 minute mark.

Thanks for elucidating the Auckland scenario, gents . I didn't know much about it.

Graham, loved your average attendance stats club by club for this season. I wonder if the negative and positive figures, can be attributed to relative club success compared to las season? Auckland has boosted AL crowd averages, and have had quite a lot of success on the pitch.

Alex, sorry to keep picking you up, but IMO many fans don't have massive insights into the changing quality of a league.

Why?

1. We've had Scottish fans on 442 claiming their league is pretty decent, when from cold, hard stats, the ball is in the transitional phase of play a lot. If players are constantly battling each other for possession of the ball, and teams can't maintain possession, a league can't be that high in standard, despite the income and cost of players. Also, using football game based criteria ( shut up Mono - ha ha), few Aussie players have improved from playing in the Scottish league - outside the Old Firm.

2. In an AL game a few weeks ago, between Melb Vic and Perth G, there were a massive amount of turnovers. Melb Vic couldn't maintain possession like they usually do. Credit to Perth G's off the ball game, in disturbing MV build ups effectively, but this game featured a massive number of clashes for the ball in defensive and attacking transitions, or, contested ball phase of play. Vic won 2-0, I think, but apart from being more clinical around the penalty box, played a lot worse then usual. Many fans thought it was a great game to watch.

3. It is an Anglocentric view that the English Championship is a high quality league - a huge step up from the AL, as English officials claim when Aussies move to them. I know it has changed, but Champ clubs don't get the chance to play in home and away games that compete in the UEFA Champ League and Europa League. Few of the players in it, play for high quality international teams. For Aus players to play in the English Championship isn't like Aussies playing in Switzerland, Portugal, Netherlands, Turkey, Greece or Belgium, who have high performing teams in European comps, that even Scottish teams from the Old Firm, compete in. It isn't a massive achievement for Aussie to play in the Championship - like the EPL and about 10 European Continental leagues.

4. Based on quality, it isn't an issue that the most popular national sporting team ATM in Aus, is the Matildas. Tactically, they are as good as the male payers, but technically and athletically, they aren't as good as the Socceroos, but are more popular ATM. Spectators are not being stopped from watching the Matildas, because they aren't as good as the Socceroos. ATM spectators prefer them.

I'm hoping there will be more discussion in the remainder, about Mac and Western. I was pretty dirty, they were awarded franchises instead of a Tas bid. ATM, the AL movers and shakers are doing more for New Zealand football than the Aus regions - Tassie, ACT, Far North Queensland, Gold Coast, and the Northern T.

Gallop's rationale for awarding Western U and Mac licences, were flawed. He isn't around to face the music. Notwithstanding, both are doing very well on the pitch ATM. Surely the high quality football both are playing, should warrant more spectators?

Last point, Auckland has a lot of experienced, older players, who are more consistent and don't make the mistakes the plethora of young players do who play for other AL clubs. They aren't going to get much better individually, just as a team unit.

Most other AL clubs, playing so much youth have the ability to improve fast - like when it all clicked for Western and they blew Auckland off the pitch!
 
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3. It is an Anglocentric view that the English Championship is a high quality league - a huge step up from the AL, as English officials claim when Aussies move to them. I know it has changed, but Champ clubs don't get the chance to play in home and away games that compete in the UEFA Champ League and Europa League. Few of the players in it, play for high quality international teams. For Aus players to play in the English Championship isn't like Aussies playing in Switzerland, Portugal, Netherlands, Turkey, Greece or Belgium, who have high performing teams in European comps, that even Scottish teams from the Old Firm, compete in. It isn't a massive achievement for Aussie to play in the Championship - like the EPL and about 10 European Continental leagues.
The English championship is a high quality league. You can compare this by elo ranking or by payroll.

Judging simply by ELO, teams such as Leeds and Burnley are on a similar level to your average big 5 league team http://clubelo.com/Ranking

If you don't accept it, that's fine. All you have to do is simply watch the FA cup/Carabao cup, and compare to European results outside of the big teams. Plymouth just beat Liverpool...this goes to show how strong the league is in my eyes.
 
I've got up to the 21 minute mark.

Thanks for elucidating the Auckland scenario, gents . I didn't know much about it.

Graham, loved your average attendance stats club by club for this season. I wonder if the negative and positive figures, can be attributed to relative club success compared to las season? Auckland has boosted AL crowd averages, and have had quite a lot of success on the pitch.

Alex, sorry to keep picking you up, but IMO many fans don't have massive insights into the changing quality of a league.

Why?

1. We've had Scottish fans on 442 claiming their league is pretty decent, when from cold, hard stats, the ball is in the transitional phase of play a lot. If players are constantly battling each other for possession of the ball, and teams can't maintain possession, a league can't be that high in standard, despite the income and cost of players. Also, using football game based criteria ( shut up Mono - ha ha), few Aussie players have improved from playing in the Scottish league - outside the Old Firm.

2. In an AL game a few weeks ago, between Melb Vic and Perth G, there were a massive amount of turnovers. Melb Vic couldn't maintain possession like they usually do. Credit to Perth G's off the ball game, in disturbing MV build ups effectively, but this game featured a massive number of clashes for the ball in defensive and attacking transitions, or, contested ball phase of play. Vic won 2-0, I think, but apart from being more clinical around the penalty box, played a lot worse then usual.

3. It is an Anglocentric view that the English Championship is a high quality league - a huge step up from the AL, as English officials claim when Aussies move to them. I know it has changed, but Champ clubs don't get the chance to play in home and away games that compete in the UEFA Champ League and Europa League. Few of the players in it, play for high quality international teams. For Aus players to play in the English Championship isn't like Aussies playing in Switzerland, Portugal, Netherlands, Turkey, Greece or Belgium, who have high performing teams in European comps, that even Scottish teams from the Old Firm, compete in. It isn't a massive achievement for Aussie to play in the Championship - like the EPL and about 10 European Continental leagues.

4. Based on quality, it isn't an issue that the most popular national sporting team ATM in Aus, is the Matildas. Tactically, they are as good as the male payers, but technically and athletically, they aren't as good as the Socceroos, but are more popular ATM. Spectators are not being stopped from watching the Matildas, because they aren't as good as the Socceroos. ATM spectators prefer them.

I'm hoping there will be more discussion in the remainder, about Mac and Western. I was pretty dirty, they were awarded franchises instead of a Tas bid. ATM, the AL movers and shakers are doing more for New Zealand football than the Aus regions - Tassie, ACT, Far North Queensland, Gold Coast, and the Northern T.

Gallop's rationale for awarding Western U and Mac licences, were flawed. He isn't around to face the music. Notwithstanding, both are doing very well on the pitch ATM. Surely the high quality football both are playing, should warrant more spectators?

Last point, Auckland has a lot of experienced, older players, who are more consistent and don't male the mistakes the plethora of young players do who play for other AL clubs. They aren't going to get much better individually, just as a team unit.

Most other AL clubs, playing so much youth have the ability to improve fast - like when it all clicked for Western and they blew Auckland off the pitch!
I believe neal rather than alex said the a league was lower quality this year.

Hope you are enjoying the episode :)
 
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@Decentric forgot to answer your question about crowds

Probably can't be explained by ladder position. Comparing ladder positions of aussie clubs 6 clubs are within 1 position of last year

Roar are doing worse but getting better crowds, ccm have only dropped by 222 despite being much worse

Adelaide and western united fit the narrative, doing better and having better crowds, but that probably has to do with their stadium situation.
 
The English championship is a high quality league. You can compare this by elo ranking or by payroll.

Judging simply by ELO, teams such as Leeds and Burnley are on a similar level to your average big 5 league team http://clubelo.com/Ranking

If you don't accept it, that's fine. All you have to do is simply watch the FA cup/Carabao cup, and compare to European results outside of the big teams. Plymouth just beat Liverpool...this goes to show how strong the league is in my eyes.
The odd upset occurs, no doubt. Occasionally, a Champ club will beat a quality EPL club.

In terms of the League Cup games, EPL teams often don't play their best elevens against teams from lower leagues. Particularly if they have an imminent big Champ League or Europa league game.

My point is that the Championship don't play home and away games against the calibre of big UEFA intra-continental regulars manifesting in Grasshoppers, FC Zurich, Besiktas, Anderlecht, PSV Eindhoven, Ajax, Feyenoorde, Sporting Lisbon, Benfica, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Porto, etc, if players play in those domestic leagues.

These clubs play really big intra-continental tournament type comps in groups of 4. Playing an intra-continental 6 match home and away series, where every result is paramount, Champ clubs don't play in this type of match scenario, with a bit of international travel involved.

Th ex pro players I've met from the bigger leagues/clubs in continental Europe are all really annoyed , because they think England is over-rated as a football nation. Their view is if they were as good as England thinks they are, the English national team would have won more comps than they have.

IMO England achieved really well under Southgate, but the English pundits and fans don't agree.

EPL clubs doing well on the continent, have a lot of Continental influence in players and coaching staff.

The EPL attracts Continental coaches and players, because of the big money on offer.
 
I believe neal rather than alex said the a league was lower quality this year.

Hope you are enjoying the episode :)
My bad!

Apologies to Alex!

With you, Zimbos and Alex, you have very distinctive voices! They are easy to differentiate.

Thoroughly enjoying the episode. The podcasts are really good.
 
In response to the AL being a selling league, when I was reading about the Eredivisie, that is considered a development league - and it is currently 6th ranked in UEFA!
 
Interesting point about Melb Vic having the worst Victorian youth academy out of the three AL clubs.
 
In response to the AL being a selling league, when I was reading about the Eredivisie, that is considered a development league - and it is currently 6th ranked in UEFA!
yep there are quite a few voices who are shocked at the minutes youth are playing but the fraction of minutes given to youth it is similar this year to the old nsl, the eredivisie and the jupiler league

throughout its history the fraction of youth minutes has more resembled the epl. If most fans are used to the epl and the a league then this has probably come as a shock to them
 
Arnie saying players leave game en masse in Aus at about age 14, compared to other countries is interesting?

Are there more distractions - surfing, sailing, windsurfing, golf, gym, board games?

Looking at participation far more jog, do yoga/Pilates, swim or cycle, than do team sports. Football is still top team participant sport.
 
Arnie saying players leave game en masse in Aus at about age 14, compared to other countries is interesting?

Are there more distractions - surfing, sailing, windsurfing, golf, gym, board games?

Looking at participation far more jog, do yoga/Pilates, swim or cycle, than do team sports. Football is still top team participant sport.
Not sure, but one possibility is that there is less emphasis in Australia on football being something you want to do even if you don't make it pro - just as a fun recreational activity.
I don't know Italy's breakdown, but in England 8 million of their 14million are adults playing the game and only 800k players are in the football pyramid. Clubs get a good community out of that and you can be part of a club for life even if you pursue other interests
 
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