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Green & Gold FC Podcast #4 - Are A-League Crowds on the Rise?

Decentric said:
The odd upset occurs, no doubt. Occasionally, a Champ club will beat a quality EPL club.

In terms of the League Cup games, EPL teams often don't play their best elevens against teams from lower leagues. Particularly if they have an imminent big Champ League or Europa league game.

My point is that the Championship don't play home and away games against the calibre of big UEFA intra-continental regulars manifesting in Grasshoppers, FC Zurich, Besiktas, Anderlecht, PSV Eindhoven, Ajax, Feyenoorde, Sporting Lisbon, Benfica, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Porto, etc, if players play in those domestic leagues.

These clubs play really big intra-continental tournament type comps in groups of 4. Playing an intra-continental 6 match home and away series, where every result is paramount, Champ clubs don't play in this type of match scenario, with a bit of international travel involved.

Th ex pro players I've met from the bigger leagues/clubs in continental Europe are all really annoyed , because they think England is over-rated as a football nation. Their view is if they were as good as England thinks they are, the English national team would have won more comps than they have.

IMO England achieved really well under Southgate, but the English pundits and fans don't agree.

EPL clubs doing well on the continent, have a lot of Continental influence in players and coaching staff.

The EPL attracts Continental coaches and players, because of the big money on offer.
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In terms of the Europa and conference leagues the premier league clubs rotate heavily and still usually win. The other week Tottenham had 3 of their academy kids score goals against Elfsborg.
 
on comparing leagues, ELO has the championship as similar to the eredivisie, Jupiler league and Portrugal which is probably about right. There isn't as much difference in style as there used to be, though championship is probably slightly more physical and has less "la pausa" (or rhthym changes) than the continental leagues. The aggregate passes per game is pretty similar these days
 
Great episode guys.... interesting take on how Championship clubs can go about growing their support base.. and what Auckland is doing compared to other owners sitting in their hands...

I must say, I have never been a podcast person however all of your efforts so far are very enjoyable to listen too..

From a sceptic, well done and keep growing....
 
grazorblade said:
Not sure, but one possibility is that there is less emphasis in Australia on football being something you want to do even if you don't make it pro - just as a fun recreational activity.
I don't know Italy's breakdown, but in England 8 million of their 14million are adults playing the game and only 800k players are in the football pyramid. Clubs get a good community out of that and you can be part of a club for life even if you pursue other interests
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Or if you want to get serious you have rego costs of $3k or more.

That would put shitloads of people off.
 
Decentric said:
The odd upset occurs, no doubt. Occasionally, a Champ club will beat a quality EPL club.

In terms of the League Cup games, EPL teams often don't play their best elevens against teams from lower leagues. Particularly if they have an imminent big Champ League or Europa league game.

My point is that the Championship don't play home and away games against the calibre of big UEFA intra-continental regulars manifesting in Grasshoppers, FC Zurich, Besiktas, Anderlecht, PSV Eindhoven, Ajax, Feyenoorde, Sporting Lisbon, Benfica, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Porto, etc, if players play in those domestic leagues.

These clubs play really big intra-continental tournament type comps in groups of 4. Playing an intra-continental 6 match home and away series, where every result is paramount, Champ clubs don't play in this type of match scenario, with a bit of international travel involved.

Th ex pro players I've met from the bigger leagues/clubs in continental Europe are all really annoyed , because they think England is over-rated as a football nation. Their view is if they were as good as England thinks they are, the English national team would have won more comps than they have.

IMO England achieved really well under Southgate, but the English pundits and fans don't agree.

EPL clubs doing well on the continent, have a lot of Continental influence in players and coaching staff.

The EPL attracts Continental coaches and players, because of the big money on offer.
Click to expand...
Mate,
No matter which league the boundaries are/were set long ago re which club plays CL and europa and we all know its top4 play CL 5/6/7 play europa.
Thats how it goes, if your not in those qualified clubs how it goes, you end up playing Cup games no more no less nothing new there.
EPL and Cup games barring the euro qualified ones of 7 that means the balance 13 other EPL clubs throw in many of their start up players hence many of the lower clubs play against damn good players, way above their usual competition.
Sure its not regular enough but don't belittle it - that is normal path of a player who makes it and not but those 3/4 games could also be your chance to get recognised and get a step up the ladder to a better club and league.

Annoyed players are the ones who can't accept where they landed in the career, such is life, at least they had a Pro tenure in their life that I'd be very jealous of.
The English have always had high expectations and thats great imo, on the pitch unfortunately for them there is always some better NT's with the same ambition/fire and expecatation, maybe the other NT's are more complete of the task at hand, thats the beauty of football.
Nothing wrong with having arrogance for without it you lack that little bit of competitive spunk thats needed.
Under Southgate they got more polished/consistant I feel but alas they still have bridges to climb hence why they went against him and his use by date came up, great challenge one day they win a tournament since '66.
The continental influence is what has helped improve their players - thats a bonus for them more than not and why their game/league is brilliant.

Look what continental players influenced here in the APL, Brioch/Berisha/Flores/ADP/Castro/LeFondre/Ninko/Juninho and the countless others thats what leagues need to inspire but locals learn improve their game.
We lack good imports in the APL and NPL today for these types are leaders just by how they play.
 
grazorblade said:
Not sure, but one possibility is that there is less emphasis in Australia on football being something you want to do even if you don't make it pro - just as a fun recreational activity.
I don't know Italy's breakdown, but in England 8 million of their 14million are adults playing the game and only 800k players are in the football pyramid. Clubs get a good community out of that and you can be part of a club for life even if you pursue other interests
Click to expand...
The issue the game faces is the fact to get anywhere in the game one has to move overseas.

The main footy codes in this country (rugby union being the outlier) allows you to pursue the big money at home.

I use Adelaide Crows AFL star Josh Rachele as an example, the bloke played in Melbourne City's academy but soon realised that to make a sporting career at home he switched over to the AFL.
 
Decentric said:
1. We've had Scottish fans on 442 claiming their league is pretty decent, when from cold, hard stats, the ball is in the transitional phase of play a lot. If players are constantly battling each other for possession of the ball, and teams can't maintain possession, a league can't be that high in standard, despite the income and cost of players. Also, using football game based criteria ( shut up Mono - ha ha), few Aussie players have improved from playing in the Scottish league - outside the Old Firm.
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I think the SPFL gets a bad wrap on here. There was a recent period where there weren't many if any Aussies in Scotland (or Europe) and that has only changed recently in the last couple of years at a guess. It's too early to say for many if this recent wave of players have improved or not through their time in the SPFL.

It seems to me it's a mixed bag. Triantis is going fantastically where he was previously floundering at Sunderland. Rowles has been great for the national team. Baccus was at his best in Scotland. Strain, Devlin, Iredale all offering options for the national team. Nieuwenhof was cut down by injuries but has done well when fit. Stama has been good but injured. Boyles best is when he's doing well at Hibs. Atkinson bombed and Nisbet is finding his feet. Birighitti terrible. Arzani and Tilio terrible - but I'd argue bad scouting because they were never going to handle the physicality. There are the journeymen like McGowan and Cancar. I don't think any of that is all that bad.

Scotland offers more games. A shop front to Europe. They give our players a go when other leagues often don't i.e., thats where our players find opportunities that don't seem open to them in other leagues.

It isn't perfect in the SPFL. The football style is kinda basic and physical. But there a pros and cons with that. You need to deal with the physicality. It suits defensively minded players. For the technical players, the cream shines through if they can handle it (Rogic and Mooy rather than Arzani and Tilio).

I don't see a problem with our second tier of players playing there. It offers us good depth and options.

I'll also leave this here for debate: why are pass completion figures used to define the quality of a league?

I appreciate that it demonstrates technique to a degree. I think it's a useful stat. It seems too simplistic though to judge a whole league or even team without further context. You can be a team that doesn't over possess but are efficient in transition and in front of goals for e.g. and still be good. You can be great at keeping possession but ineffective at scoring like some of Spains recent performances. I don't discount it but I think there are traps at using it in isolation without context.
 
The only thing good about the SPL is that it’s ranked a bit higher than AL.
That’s it no more or less and that ranking varies depending the site.
Why do you think many of our players arn’t looked more in other leagues ? They are NOT good enough compared to the many other players in the market simple as that.
 
Quicky said:
I think the SPFL gets a bad wrap on here. There was a recent period where there weren't many if any Aussies in Scotland (or Europe) and that has only changed recently in the last couple of years at a guess. It's too early to say for many if this recent wave of players have improved or not through their time in the SPFL.

It seems to me it's a mixed bag. Triantis is going fantastically where he was previously floundering at Sunderland. Rowles has been great for the national team. Baccus was at his best in Scotland. Strain, Devlin, Iredale all offering options for the national team. Nieuwenhof was cut down by injuries but has done well when fit. Stama has been good but injured. Boyles best is when he's doing well at Hibs. Atkinson bombed and Nisbet is finding his feet. Birighitti terrible. Arzani and Tilio terrible - but I'd argue bad scouting because they were never going to handle the physicality. There are the journeymen like McGowan and Cancar. I don't think any of that is all that bad.

Scotland offers more games. A shop front to Europe. They give our players a go when other leagues often don't i.e., thats where our players find opportunities that don't seem open to them in other leagues.

It isn't perfect in the SPFL. The football style is kinda basic and physical. But there a pros and cons with that. You need to deal with the physicality. It suits defensively minded players. For the technical players, the cream shines through if they can handle it (Rogic and Mooy rather than Arzani and Tilio).

I don't see a problem with our second tier of players playing there. It offers us good depth and options.

I'll also leave this here for debate: why are pass completion figures used to define the quality of a league?

I appreciate that it demonstrates technique to a degree. I think it's a useful stat. It seems too simplistic though to judge a whole league or even team without further context. You can be a team that doesn't over possess but are efficient in transition and in front of goals for e.g. and still be good. You can be great at keeping possession but ineffective at scoring like some of Spains recent performances. I don't discount it but I think there are traps at using it in isolation without context.
Click to expand...
I use elo to define the quality of a league and pass completion to define the style

It is hard to change style and hard to jump a level, when I looked at transfers out of Scotland compared to other leagues with the same elo, Scottish league didn't just do a little worse but a lot worse

Having said that if u just look at u23s, they did just as well as other leagues. Not sure why, maybe it is easier to adapt when young
 
LFC said:
The only thing good about the SPL is that it’s ranked a bit higher than AL.
That’s it no more or less and that ranking varies depending the site.
Why do you think many of our players arn’t looked more in other leagues ? They are NOT good enough compared to the many other players in the market simple as that.
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Our players tend to be picked up by clubs that once had an aussie playing for them, almost never an exception

That would surprising if we had an efficient market where every player that is good enough gets a gig

Similar quality players can have one end up in Belgium, another in the eredivisie, another in Scotland, another in England and another in Denmark depending on what that small list of clubs that scout aussies are looking for.
We really need aussies that go to new clubs to break ground and make way for more aussies. I think jed drew and Jacob italiano are the only ones in that category tho?
 
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Graz - I think breaking new ground is cutting the mustard and really stand out no matter where TBH.
Look at Kuol Irakunda
Both next best thing since sliced bread here.
One is back.
Hoping Irakunda breaks the mould and infact does make it and stand out.
 
LFC said:
Graz - I think breaking new ground is cutting the mustard and really stand out no matter where TBH.
Look at Kuol Irakunda
Both next best thing since sliced bread here.
One is back.
Hoping Irakunda breaks the mould and infact does make it and stand out.
Click to expand...
Kuol isn't back? Do you mean back at Newcastle?

In irankundas case he is loaned to a club where aussies have played befor
 
Decentric said:
The odd upset occurs, no doubt. Occasionally, a Champ club will beat a quality EPL club.

In terms of the League Cup games, EPL teams often don't play their best elevens against teams from lower leagues. Particularly if they have an imminent big Champ League or Europa league game.

My point is that the Championship don't play home and away games against the calibre of big UEFA intra-continental regulars manifesting in Grasshoppers, FC Zurich, Besiktas, Anderlecht, PSV Eindhoven, Ajax, Feyenoorde, Sporting Lisbon, Benfica, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Porto, etc, if players play in those domestic leagues.

These clubs play really big intra-continental tournament type comps in groups of 4. Playing an intra-continental 6 match home and away series, where every result is paramount, Champ clubs don't play in this type of match scenario, with a bit of international travel involved.

Th ex pro players I've met from the bigger leagues/clubs in continental Europe are all really annoyed , because they think England is over-rated as a football nation. Their view is if they were as good as England thinks they are, the English national team would have won more comps than they have.

IMO England achieved really well under Southgate, but the English pundits and fans don't agree.

EPL clubs doing well on the continent, have a lot of Continental influence in players and coaching staff.

The EPL attracts Continental coaches and players, because of the big money on offer.
Click to expand...
Playing in Europe does not make you a better club. There are clubs who play in Europe that would struggle in League 1.

The other fallacy is that if English football was so good then England would win everything. Not true because English leagues have foreign players. As a result, English international players might not be the ones making the headlines in these leagues. Not to mention that Southgate was a shit coach who tried to play boring football so he could win games 1-0.

The same argument could be made that if the A-League is such a high standard, why are the Socceroos so shit.

All of this does not distract from the fact that the Championship is a much higher level than A-league. If it was not, then we would see more and more Aus players make the move and cement places in the team. The Aussie centric view of the A-league is not doing the game any good. Football in Australia has been on a backward trajectory for some time, so it would be best that we take off the rose tinted glasses and be willing to accept the flaws, the more chance we have of actually moving forward.
 
Quicky said:
I think the SPFL gets a bad wrap on here. There was a recent period where there weren't many if any Aussies in Scotland (or Europe) and that has only changed recently in the last couple of years at a guess. It's too early to say for many if this recent wave of players have improved or not through their time in the SPFL.

It seems to me it's a mixed bag. Triantis is going fantastically where he was previously floundering at Sunderland. Rowles has been great for the national team. Baccus was at his best in Scotland. Strain, Devlin, Iredale all offering options for the national team. Nieuwenhof was cut down by injuries but has done well when fit. Stama has been good but injured. Boyles best is when he's doing well at Hibs. Atkinson bombed and Nisbet is finding his feet. Birighitti terrible. Arzani and Tilio terrible - but I'd argue bad scouting because they were never going to handle the physicality. There are the journeymen like McGowan and Cancar. I don't think any of that is all that bad.

Scotland offers more games. A shop front to Europe. They give our players a go when other leagues often don't i.e., thats where our players find opportunities that don't seem open to them in other leagues.

It isn't perfect in the SPFL. The football style is kinda basic and physical. But there a pros and cons with that. You need to deal with the physicality. It suits defensively minded players. For the technical players, the cream shines through if they can handle it (Rogic and Mooy rather than Arzani and Tilio).

I don't see a problem with our second tier of players playing there. It offers us good depth and options.

I'll also leave this here for debate: why are pass completion figures used to define the quality of a league?

I appreciate that it demonstrates technique to a degree. I think it's a useful stat. It seems too simplistic though to judge a whole league or even team without further context. You can be a team that doesn't over possess but are efficient in transition and in front of goals for e.g. and still be good. You can be great at keeping possession but ineffective at scoring like some of Spains recent performances. I don't discount it but I think there are traps at using it in isolation without context.
Click to expand...
A problem I have with Scottish football is the amount of criticism I've been reading on Scottish forums of Scottish pitches. From "sub-standard" to "potato field" among others, pitches at St Jonnstone, Kilmarnock, St Mirren. Dundee. Livingston, Ayr off the top of my head have come under fire in the last couple of seasons. Even Hampden was criticised as being "unsafe" not that long-ago.
 
zimbos05 said:
Playing in Europe does not make you a better club. There are clubs who play in Europe that would struggle in League 1.

The other fallacy is that if English football was so good then England would win everything. Not true because English leagues have foreign players. As a result, English international players might not be the ones making the headlines in these leagues. Not to mention that Southgate was a shit coach who tried to play boring football so he could win games 1-0.

The same argument could be made that if the A-League is such a high standard, why are the Socceroos so shit.

All of this does not distract from the fact that the Championship is a much higher level than A-league. If it was not, then we would see more and more Aus players make the move and cement places in the team. The Aussie centric view of the A-league is not doing the game any good. Football in Australia has been on a backward trajectory for some time, so it would be best that we take off the rose tinted glasses and be willing to accept the flaws, the more chance we have of actually moving forward.
Click to expand...
Praise the zimbos !
Here here !!!!!
 
Once again really enjoyed the discussion . I realise my football knowledge is fairly limited - but mainly know about football performance, game/player analysis and coaching.

I'm surprised how much the panellists know about football areas I don't? I've learned a vast amount listening to all the G and G podcasts. My only frustration is for this topic for Podcast 4, I wanted to learn a lot more about Western U and Macarthur - their scenarios and why they aren't drawing bigger crowd support?

I know a bit more about Western from this podcast. But not much more about Macarthur. Just watching a game between them was interesting with so many good young players on show, who were impressive. Just surprised both coaches, Sterj and John Aloisi, both played 4-4-2 flat midfields in possession?

We seem to have virtually no Macarthur supporters on his forum. Yet it seems like South Melb, given it isn't even an AL 1 club, has massive support.

In the past on TWG, and even with PV4 following Jets closely on 442, we don't still have insights from AL club members - apart from South Melb supporters.

As a Cricket Tas Member, even though I don't know much about cricket performance compared to football, I learn all sorts of inside stories about the team/coaches/players, etc. I hear a lot of performance insights from former pro cricketers too. If we ever get a Tas AL team here, first or second division, I'll join as a member too - if I'm still here!
 
Decentric said:
Once again really enjoyed the discussion . I realise my football knowledge is fairly limited - but mainly know about football performance, game/player analysis and coaching.

I'm surprised how much the panellists know about football areas I don't? I've learned a vast amount listening to all the G and G podcasts. My only frustration is for this topic for Podcast 4, I wanted to learn a lot more about Western U and Macarthur - their scenarios and why they aren't drawing bigger crowd support?

I know a bit more about Western from this podcast. But not much more about Macarthur. Just watching a game between them was interesting with so many good young players on show, who were impressive. Just surprised both coaches, Sterj and John Aloisi, both played 4-4-2 flat midfields in possession?

We seem to have virtually no Macarthur supporters on his forum. Yet it seems like South Melb, given it isn't even an AL 1 club, has massive support.

In the past on TWG, and even with PV4 following Jets closely on 442, we don't still have insights from AL club members - apart from South Melb supporters.

As a Cricket Tas Member, even though I don't know much about cricket performance compared to football, I learn all sorts of inside stories about the team/coaches/players, etc. I hear a lot of performance insights from former pro cricketers too. If we ever get a Tas AL team here, first or second division, I'll join as a member too - if I'm still here!
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thanks for your kind words

We would love to recruit more fans from each club. It has been difficult letting a league reddit know about this site though
 
Here is an a league redditors summary of macarthur

5 seasons of Macarthur FC

Disbanded their original active support before their first game and left them to rot in a corner off camera

Club shop broken into before it even opened

Charged $40 for junior tickets and over $50 for away fans despite paying $1 a year for Ctown stadium

Moved their season opener to Newcastle two days prior because they forgot to check the state of their pitch

Fought fascism against Sydney United

Sacked Dwight Yorke and his assistant whilst in transit

Terminated their striker and left him on the kerb outside team hotel in Adelaide hours before a game to book his own taxi and flight back to Syd the same weekend

Labelled a 'pub team' by the ex Man United star

Chairman's wife told supporters on the Bulls Facebook Fan Group to f off after losing to Wanderers

Bullpen shut down for remainder of last season after a dodgy rusted fence collapsed and has ceased to exist now leaving them as the only club without an active

Raided by SWAT over match fixing involving the captain taking orders from overseas criminal groups and bribing his teammates with money

FIFA transfer ban after being sued by Yorke and forced to pay him out

Wrong date on their 24/25 kit

CB mutually terminated after threatening to shoot and kill a cop after being booted from a nightclub

Captain leaves because of poor officiating and reportedly wasn't happy with the club releasing players in Jan transfer window

On top of all this, they have never attracted a crowd over 5126 outside of games against Wanderers and Sydney FC and don't look like doing so any time soon. Seriously credit to those who turn up and support this club but far out it looks like depression all round from a neutral perspective
 
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