Ruben Zadkovich leaves Roar

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Was always going to wnd badly for Rubo....

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Noosa Lion]

For Brisbane Roar.....

What price more firepower? What price ruthlessness? What price match-winners, magic makers, killers in front of goal? That is one very obvious gap in their team development that cannot be put off for a moment longer. They inexplicably didn’t take it seriously as a priority last off season and probably won't the next.

So what half decent coach would take this club seriously???

 

[Noosa Lion]

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks

 

[grazorblade]

For Brisbane Roar.....

What price more firepower? What price ruthlessness? What price match-winners, magic makers, killers in front of goal? That is one very obvious gap in their team development that cannot be put off for a moment longer. They inexplicably didn’t take it seriously as a priority last off season and probably won't the next.

So what half decent coach would take this club seriously???

Welcome to the forum

 

[zimbos05]

I said a lot because there are a lot of elements that make up a review of a manager in my eyes - not just the results.

That you choose not to rate those elements in favour of the black and white results as your overriding assessment criteria is how you choose to see it instead. I can live with that.

The results say exactly what I spelled out in all those words - we leaked at the back at some point in most games and failed to score after creating opportunities at the other end. Everything that happened on the pitch between those failings also forms part of Zadkovich's success or failure as a coach though - which included a lot of good, some experimental madness at times, and some horrible stuff too.

Yes, it is exactly like when a club says they bossed possession but lost the match. I do not think I suggested otherwise. I also did not suggest that I was happy with how we ended up on the table or with how we played outright. But I can dislike that and still see value and good in the season under Zadkovich.

The point of difference is that I choose to view, and have always viewed, our progression from game to game in small increments of promise rather than being driven down by the simple fact of poor results. As the season progressed we had more of those moments and to me there has been a definite progression throughout the season, albeit painfully slow, until the final games when it produced results - again admittedly against the teams in our immediate vicinity at the bottom of the table.

I did not say Zadkovich needed more time - I said "I would have liked for Ruben to have the time and resources to prove himself with a stable and improved squad but that cannot happen at our club and results are the metric that rules when it comes down to it.". I stand by that. I would love for Ruben to have financial freedom to choose players, build a squad, keep the best the following season and improve on it. I would love for that to be possible to see how he would go. It isn't a realistic idea but it does not change the fact that I would like to see what Ruben can do under the best circumstances. He might turn out to be crap or he may work wonders - I have seen enough to wonder.

As for our history of budget conscious managers, I think Zadkovich has had the worst of it in the last decade or so. Ange and his immediate successors had the benefit of pre-Bakkries options with an eroding player base over time that held some quality for awhile. Looking at the squad all the way down to John Aloisi we are not talking about a similar budget to Zadkovich by any means. Fowler got to build his squad as he wanted and again his immediate successors had the benefit of those players brought in until probably Warren Moon saw the last of them off. It looks pretty clear to me that Zadkovich has inherited the bulk of his squad on relatively low salaries and has had the most restrictive spending of any coach so far. I have not seen the accounts, but just look at the players over the years and you can see that has to be true.

I did say he had failed to recruit well enough. You must have missed that part.

In black and white terms Zadkovich failed to produce results at this level, but it would be some awfully blinkered eyes that saw no good in his managing at all and could not see that the style of football we were trying to play was worth watching.

I'm not only basing it on results. I'm basing it on the style of football, the way we played, the way he managed the team and himself, and his ability as a coach.

The point is that Zadkovich was a bad coach and he led a terrible campaign. It just seems as though you are tyring to justify things, but there really isn't anything to justify. You said it yourself, those results came against teams at the bottom end of the table. This basically says that he could not compete with anything above that. It's not an investment I want to make long term.

Coaches should not be successful by how much they can spend, that is not a sign of a good coach. I'm not saying Zadkovich has had it easy, but lets not pretend that he is the only one to work on a shoestring budget.

No doubt we need the Bakries gone, but let's not try to pain these excruciating pictures of Zadkovich.

It really is just as simple as the fact that he was not good enough and needed to go. Simple. Like LFC says, no need for the overcomplicated sermons.

 

[RIMB]

I'm not only basing it on results. I'm basing it on the style of football, the way we played, the way he managed the team and himself, and his ability as a coach.

The point is that Zadkovich was a bad coach and he led a terrible campaign. It just seems as though you are tyring to justify things, but there really isn't anything to justify. You said it yourself, those results came against teams at the bottom end of the table. This basically says that he could not compete with anything above that. It's not an investment I want to make long term.

Coaches should not be successful by how much they can spend, that is not a sign of a good coach. I'm not saying Zadkovich has had it easy, but lets not pretend that he is the only one to work on a shoestring budget.

No doubt we need the Bakries gone, but let's not try to pain these excruciating pictures of Zadkovich.

It really is just as simple as the fact that he was not good enough and needed to go. Simple. Like LFC says, no need for the overcomplicated sermons.

I understand your point of view and your perspective. I don't begrudge you that or consider you wrong.

At the same time though I genuinely don't think it is possible for you to understand my perspective or appreciate the things that I see as progress and good football in general.

I take the time to explain my opinions because I think these subjects and our fellow posters are worth the effort - if you want to label them sermons then I'll keep seeing you here from my pulpit in the church of football.

Happy to end this here. As annoying and woke as it might sound I do appreciate you taking the time to discuss how differently we see things.

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

I understand your point of view and your perspective. I don't begrudge you that or consider you wrong.

At the same time though I genuinely don't think it is possible for you to understand my perspective or appreciate the things that I see as progress and good football in general.

I take the time to explain my opinions because I think these subjects and our fellow posters are worth the effort - if you want to label them sermons then I'll keep seeing you here from my pulpit in the church of football.

Happy to end this here. As annoying and woke as it might sound I do appreciate you taking the time to discuss how differently we see things.

I take your point which I think are valid. However, let me pose the question: the green shoots that we saw, are they there because of RZ or even if I was coaching those players those shoots would have been there anyway?

 

[zimbos05]

I understand your point of view and your perspective. I don't begrudge you that or consider you wrong.

At the same time though I genuinely don't think it is possible for you to understand my perspective or appreciate the things that I see as progress and good football in general.

I take the time to explain my opinions because I think these subjects and our fellow posters are worth the effort - if you want to label them sermons then I'll keep seeing you here from my pulpit in the church of football.

Happy to end this here. As annoying and woke as it might sound I do appreciate you taking the time to discuss how differently we see things.

I'm not dismissing your thoughts, I understand them and I know what you are saying.

What frustrates me is that in the past few years -not just with Ruben- there's this shift in the way fans think which isn't beneficial to the game.

The same happened with Ole, and happens with Arteta. This bending over backwards and "deep" analysis to justify and support. It doesn't have to be that deep.

Yes Ruben had some limitations from the club, but as a manager himself, he was limited. The roar are the only club in Qld. We should not be this bad considering the talent pool on offer to us and the resources we should be working with..
Why would you invoke the "woke". I don't buy into that right wing cra
p.

 

[RIMB]

I'm not dismissing your thoughts, I understand them and I know what you are saying.

What frustrates me is that in the past few years -not just with Ruben- there's this shift in the way fans think which isn't beneficial to the game.

The same happened with Ole, and happens with Arteta. This bending over backwards and "deep" analysis to justify and support. It doesn't have to be that deep.

Yes Ruben had some limitations from the club, but as a manager himself, he was limited. The roar are the only club in Qld. We should not be this bad considering the talent pool on offer to us and the resources we should be working with..
Why would you invoke the "woke". I don't buy into that right wing cra
p.

I have often been at odds with how most supporters view games. I see good things in moments that give me a real lift where most just see overall dross or dire football. That is where I see the good stuff that Zadkovich has been doing and where I see progress in him as a manager.

I think I choose to see progress in very little as long as it increases in frequency each game (with depressing slumps I have to add). It was the same with our time under Fowler. Discussions in the past with posters like Paulc told me that some rely on a good game of football to lift their crappy weeks - and the frustration that poor football brings is quite crippling. It makes sense if you wear their shoes.

I am glad I am me when it comes down to it.

I said woke because many people think that saying things like "I appreciate your effort and your opinion" is gratuitous and meaningless. I did not want you to think that was how I meant it.

We should not be near the bottom of the table in any season. No Roar supporter can be happy with the results.

I take your point which I think are valid. However, let me pose the question: the green shoots that we saw, are they there because of RZ or even if I was coaching those players those shoots would have been there anyway?

Again a choice, but I believe if we are genuinely looking at a manager and giving them shit for the bad parts we also have to be allowing that all the good parts are equally on their watch.

At the least, giving those green shoots their time in the sun in an environment where they can play and develop without being crushed by the pressure of bad mistakes and lost games is no small thing.

On the side, if you were to step into the Roar job tomorrow you would have at least one supporter looking to see any good bits you might bring to the club, the team or the game. Send them your CV and let us know when you get your chance .

 

[zimbos05]

I have often been at odds with how most supporters view games. I see good things in moments that give me a real lift where most just see overall dross or dire football. That is where I see the good stuff that Zadkovich has been doing and where I see progress in him as a manager.

I think I choose to see progress in very little as long as it increases in frequency each game (with depressing slumps I have to add). It was the same with our time under Fowler. Discussions in the past with posters like Paulc told me that some rely on a good game of football to lift their crappy weeks - and the frustration that poor football brings is quite crippling. It makes sense if you wear their shoes.

I am glad I am me when it comes down to it.

I said woke because many people think that saying things like "I appreciate your effort and your opinion" is gratuitous and meaningless. I did not want you to think that was how I meant it.

We should not be near the bottom of the table in any season. No Roar supporter can be happy with the results.

Again a choice, but I believe if we are genuinely looking at a manager and giving them shit for the bad parts we also have to be allowing that all the good parts are equally on their watch.

At the least, giving those green shoots their time in the sun in an environment where they can play and develop without being crushed by the pressure of bad mistakes and lost games is no small thing.

On the side, if you were to step into the Roar job tomorrow you would have at least one supporter looking to see any good bits you might bring to the club, the team or the game. Send them your CV and let us know when you get your chance .

I'm not having a go at you. It's just frustration from being in the system and seeing how it is going. Let's take Arteta for example, the man has won nothing in 5 years, yet get's lauded as this amazing manager. Now granted he has done some good things, but for a manager at such a club, is success not defined by the titles won? Why are people applauding him getting to a semi or finishing 2nd. It's like when Shankly said, "If you finish second, you are nothing".

Not don't get me wrong, I'm not all about 2nd is the worst thing in the world, but it's the bending over backwards and weird justifications that are coming out that are becoming a problem. People start pulling out xG, and this state or that stat, like it matters. I've seen ones where the team loses and it's things like, "Afroman mad 4 passes, 100% success rate, 1 successful intervention, 3 tackles, 100% success. What a Player!!" and you are just like, seriously??

I like that you choose to see things as positive always or always look for the positive, but there are also times when it is perfectly fine to just be like, "nah, that is shit, we should demand better".

As for the woke thing, we shouldn't have to justify being normal. Don't let the right warp the view of sensibility and kindness as if it is some kind of bad thing.

 

[RIMB]

I'm not having a go at you. It's just frustration from being in the system and seeing how it is going. Let's take Arteta for example, the man has won nothing in 5 years, yet get's lauded as this amazing manager. Now granted he has done some good things, but for a manager at such a club, is success not defined by the titles won? Why are people applauding him getting to a semi or finishing 2nd. It's like when Shankly said, "If you finish second, you are nothing".

Not don't get me wrong, I'm not all about 2nd is the worst thing in the world, but it's the bending over backwards and weird justifications that are coming out that are becoming a problem. People start pulling out xG, and this state or that stat, like it matters. I've seen ones where the team loses and it's things like, "Afroman mad 4 passes, 100% success rate, 1 successful intervention, 3 tackles, 100% success. What a Player!!" and you are just like, seriously??

I like that you choose to see things as positive always or always look for the positive, but there are also times when it is perfectly fine to just be like, "nah, that is shit, we should demand better".

As for the woke thing, we shouldn't have to justify being normal. Don't let the right warp the view of sensibility and kindness as if it is some kind of bad thing.

No great insight from me - but I think the main difference is you look at things compared to how they should be and I probably compare them to how they have been.

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

I'm not having a go at you. It's just frustration from being in the system and seeing how it is going. Let's take Arteta for example, the man has won nothing in 5 years, yet get's lauded as this amazing manager. Now granted he has done some good things, but for a manager at such a club, is success not defined by the titles won? Why are people applauding him getting to a semi or finishing 2nd. It's like when Shankly said, "If you finish second, you are nothing".

Not don't get me wrong, I'm not all about 2nd is the worst thing in the world, but it's the bending over backwards and weird justifications that are coming out that are becoming a problem. People start pulling out xG, and this state or that stat, like it matters. I've seen ones where the team loses and it's things like, "Afroman mad 4 passes, 100% success rate, 1 successful intervention, 3 tackles, 100% success. What a Player!!" and you are just like, seriously??

I like that you choose to see things as positive always or always look for the positive, but there are also times when it is perfectly fine to just be like, "nah, that is shit, we should demand better".

As for the woke thing, we shouldn't have to justify being normal. Don't let the right warp the view of sensibility and kindness as if it is some kind of bad thing.

That first paragraph made me realise that in Oz we have two teams to support: the A-League club of your choice and the Socceroos. I know plenty of Englishmen who couldn't give a toss about the national team because they always lose. Our mentality is if a player (specially a young one) is doing well at club level, irrespective of club, then how can he fit in the NT.

 

[zimbos05]

No great insight from me - but I think the main difference is you look at things compared to how they should be and I probably compare them to how they have been.

I've been there for the highs and lows. I know how they have been. Trust me I look at both as they work in tandem.

That first paragraph made me realise that in Oz we have two teams to support: the A-League club of your choice and the Socceroos. I know plenty of Englishmen who couldn't give a toss about the national team because they always lose. Our mentality is if a player (specially a young one) is doing well at club level, irrespective of club, then how can he fit in the NT.

Our system isn't designed well at the moment. There's a lot of room to improve. Not sure what you mean though. Are you suggesting if a player plays well, we go with, "they have to play regardless of if it's their position"

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

I've been there for the highs and lows. I know how they have been. Trust me I look at both as they work in tandem.


Our system isn't designed well at the moment. There's a lot of room to improve. Not sure what you mean though. Are you suggesting if a player plays well, we go with, "they have to play regardless of if it's their position"

No, what I am saying is that we get excited about emerging prospects. We speculate about overseas opportunities and what this could mean for the NT. I am not a supporter of either WU or BR but I enjoy watching Botic and Herrington respectively. Given the Socceroos low scoring and an inability to find a striker, I would not mind having Botic invited to a training session. Herrington is a longer term prospect and could easily replace Souttar in due course. But at least there is a prospect.

 

[RIMB]

That first paragraph made me realise that in Oz we have two teams to support: the A-League club of your choice and the Socceroos. I know plenty of Englishmen who couldn't give a toss about the national team because they always lose. Our mentality is if a player (specially a young one) is doing well at club level, irrespective of club, then how can he fit in the NT.

If you were to change your statement to make it the National team (men's or women's) and one domestic team you would be more accurate. A lot of support for the Socceroos/Matildas in NPL and local club supporters with strong feelings or even no feelings about the aleagues competition itself.

Otherwise I agree. Most posters seem to follow one of our national teams regardless of whether they have a vested interest in a domestic team.

I have heard a few people asking "who the f*ck is that" of aleagues players in the Socceroos over the last 5 years or so.

At least on this forum we do tend to see a strong national team perspective when we see or hear about Australian quality coming through at the domestic level - we really only see them ready for promotion to the big stage from the aleague though - in that I agree with your mention of them specifically.

On a similar point I do not remember any young player receiving a comment on any version of this forum that they wished they would get a broken leg so they would not play for the national team on account of them playing for an enemy club.

 

[Hillbilly55]

I have often been at odds with how most supporters view games. I see good things in moments that give me a real lift where most just see overall dross or dire football. That is where I see the good stuff that Zadkovich has been doing and where I see progress in him as a manager.

I think I choose to see progress in very little as long as it increases in frequency each game (with depressing slumps I have to add). It was the same with our time under Fowler. Discussions in the past with posters like Paulc told me that some rely on a good game of football to lift their crappy weeks - and the frustration that poor football brings is quite crippling. It makes sense if you wear their shoes.

I am glad I am me when it comes down to it.

I said woke because many people think that saying things like "I appreciate your effort and your opinion" is gratuitous and meaningless. I did not want you to think that was how I meant it.

We should not be near the bottom of the table in any season. No Roar supporter can be happy with the results.

Again a choice, but I believe if we are genuinely looking at a manager and giving them shit for the bad parts we also have to be allowing that all the good parts are equally on their watch.

At the least, giving those green shoots their time in the sun in an environment where they can play and develop without being crushed by the pressure of bad mistakes and lost games is no small thing.

On the side, if you were to step into the Roar job tomorrow you would have at least one supporter looking to see any good bits you might bring to the club, the team or the game. Send them your CV and let us know when you get your chance .

I have stepped away from watching football pretty much this year, so I have appreciated your insights into the Roar's performances, and I have caught the odd highlights package. RZ seems to have been wounded from his time at PG, and it has been good for him and the Roar to be on the progression that they have made this year. It has been a pity that the purse strings have been somewhat limited, and that has reduced the viability of the playing group as a competitive force.

All the same, its been good to see some youngsters produce the goods for the club and on the international stage.

I hope RZ finds a niche where he can display his wares more appropriately, as he seems to have had the backing of the players, even as they languished at the bottom of the table. To now hear that the owners of the Roar are going to pump some money into the club after giving RZ the boot is disappointing, but I guess its their money and we are just the suckers who are emotionally vested in the club.

Enjoy the off season and come back for another season of hope. God Bless, and thanks for your contributions.

 

[grazorblade]

Its good to be at odds since everyone notices different things and everyone is too emotional live to be objective about what is working and what isnt

It isnt until people watch the same game 3 or 4 times that people converge on opinions and unless its a socceroos game who has time for that haha

 

[grazorblade]

Although apparently a pizza manager has time to watch games 4 times

 

[LFC]

I tend to agree your posted comments earlier pasted below zimbos !!!!!

"No don't get me wrong, I'm not all about 2nd is the worst thing in the world, but it's the bending over backwards and weird justifications that are coming out that are becoming a problem. People start pulling out xG, and this state or that stat, like it matters. I've seen ones where the team loses and it's things like, "Afroman mad 4 passes, 100% success rate, 1 successful intervention, 3 tackles, 100% success. What a Player!!" and you are just like, seriously?? "

This is Aussie viewing right now more so post covid re young players due to the financials and the comps status.
Positive looking in the lacklustre competition, the ongoing talking it up is OTT - sure applaud good individual play and some cohesion but we are miles behind imo and the stat this stat comparo's is also trying more so reaching for anything to justify whats being seen.
Its now near on a U23 type of age outlook, great they are getting Pro contracts but the challenges and learning against seasoned compaigners - not much.
The need for leaders is paramount.
The lack also of nothing to lose in competition is such a shame.
Then to think these untested (and lacking qty of games) more so wet behind the ears young un's are talked up as if - throw them into the NT let alone they struggle once a openning becomes abroad club wise.

Our coachs are com si com sa generally yet someone bangs on how advanced we are (coaching wise) compared to our asian neighbour leagues.
Seriously reaching.

Otherwise Happy Monday fellas
Hope you enjoyed the weekend.