Socceroos 11 in March WC

[JS96]

JS, I'm going to be critical of this take. And it seems a lot of posts hold a similar view I disagree with. I found the previous Popa press conference quite interesting. Basically, do you want to be selected over the 50 cap incumbent? Kick down the fucking door and you will be.

‘One good dribble ... one good trick. It’s not enough’: Popovic demands more from World Cup chasing Socceroos

In his most expansive interview yet since becoming national team boss, Tony Popovic has delivered some home truths to those dreaming of pulling on the green and gold.

www.smh.com.au

There was also mention of Garang or Okon Junior. These kids are still playing against kids. I love the talent, but for FM only, not for must win WCQs. I appreciate the old enough, good enough argument. But even Harry Kewell was picked after having cracked the Leeds first team in the PL. I don't see these are really comparable.

Irvine is a 70 cap socceroo who is an automatic selection for his side in the Bundesliga. There isn't an Australian squad in history he wouldn't warrant selection for or be in contention to start. He has absolutely had some poor games, but would any of the other players suggested be likely to perform better given they play at a lower standard? On their day anything is possible, but I wouldn't consider it likely.

Of Irvine, Ballard, Triantis and Nisbett, it seems most people here would leave Irvine out for two of those other guys. Irvine has done it for 10 years as a starter in Europe and this season made the step up a division to a big 5 league. These guys have one season playing well in Europe for smaller clubs in smaller leagues. If they were doing this at a bigger club in a bigger league I could understand the sentiment more. But none of these guys are kicking in the door demanding to take the starting spot. They are putting together solid first seasons in Europe and should be considered to hopefully integrate into the squad and take an opportunity if it arises.

Similarly Leckie is another 70 caps. Slightly different case, slightly older, could still be in Europe but came home and played well in Aliga. If he is fit and playing well for City he is an automatic squad selection, potentially starting. There is a lot of value in the experience and having been there and done it. Is Irankunda a better selection? Maybe, the talent is there, but has he kicked in the door? Has he been elite for Grasshoppers?

From the article:
View attachment 1342

9 starts in a league that is a small step up from Aliga. Subbed off every match, 3 assists. I've not watched the matches, from all reports he has been quite good, but hardly a big sample, just a good, solid start to his season there. But probably not 'Elite'.
View attachment 1343

This is not to say picking any of these guys is the wrong choice, but I wanted to push back a bit as there seems to be the idea that some of these guys would obviously be an improvement on what we have seen to date or are obviously better players. Best case they are playing week in at equivalent levels, or lower levels, so it isn't clear they would come in an perform at higher levels than the incumbents.

Nice contribution. For me the issue is the older guard are part of the reason why we don't get the results. The underperforming ones at least. If it's obvious we're now going to qualify automatically then maybe we should try the others and see how they go.

We've held on too long in some positions and pay deadly when too many raw players come in at once.

 

[grazorblade]

JS, I'm going to be critical of this take. And it seems a lot of posts hold a similar view I disagree with. I found the previous Popa press conference quite interesting. Basically, do you want to be selected over the 50 cap incumbent? Kick down the fucking door and you will be.

‘One good dribble ... one good trick. It’s not enough’: Popovic demands more from World Cup chasing Socceroos

In his most expansive interview yet since becoming national team boss, Tony Popovic has delivered some home truths to those dreaming of pulling on the green and gold.

www.smh.com.au

There was also mention of Garang or Okon Junior. These kids are still playing against kids. I love the talent, but for FM only, not for must win WCQs. I appreciate the old enough, good enough argument. But even Harry Kewell was picked after having cracked the Leeds first team in the PL. I don't see these are really comparable.

Irvine is a 70 cap socceroo who is an automatic selection for his side in the Bundesliga. There isn't an Australian squad in history he wouldn't warrant selection for or be in contention to start. He has absolutely had some poor games, but would any of the other players suggested be likely to perform better given they play at a lower standard? On their day anything is possible, but I wouldn't consider it likely.

Of Irvine, Ballard, Triantis and Nisbett, it seems most people here would leave Irvine out for two of those other guys. Irvine has done it for 10 years as a starter in Europe and this season made the step up a division to a big 5 league. These guys have one season playing well in Europe for smaller clubs in smaller leagues. If they were doing this at a bigger club in a bigger league I could understand the sentiment more. But none of these guys are kicking in the door demanding to take the starting spot. They are putting together solid first seasons in Europe and should be considered to hopefully integrate into the squad and take an opportunity if it arises.

Similarly Leckie is another 70 caps. Slightly different case, slightly older, could still be in Europe but came home and played well in Aliga. If he is fit and playing well for City he is an automatic squad selection, potentially starting. There is a lot of value in the experience and having been there and done it. Is Irankunda a better selection? Maybe, the talent is there, but has he kicked in the door? Has he been elite for Grasshoppers?

From the article:
View attachment 1342

9 starts in a league that is a small step up from Aliga. Subbed off every match, 3 assists. I've not watched the matches, from all reports he has been quite good, but hardly a big sample, just a good, solid start to his season there. But probably not 'Elite'.
View attachment 1343

This is not to say picking any of these guys is the wrong choice, but I wanted to push back a bit as there seems to be the idea that some of these guys would obviously be an improvement on what we have seen to date or are obviously better players. Best case they are playing week in at equivalent levels, or lower levels, so it isn't clear they would come in an perform at higher levels than the incumbents.

Agree with the broad strokes, irankunda and triantis are beating the door down. Beyond irankundas 3 assists he has won 3 penalties so that's 6 goal contributions, the majority of goals for his team that are really struggling

Definitely starting Irvine.

 

[Quicky]

Found a scouting video on Triantis - you have to pick this kid.

I knows its only the SPFL but he has all the attributes to go to the the very top.

Fantastic video. Such a well rounded player. I think Triantis would really worry Asian teams. His screening, dribbling, close ball control, long balls, willingness to shoot and threat from set pieces is a tricky combination.

With Souttar and Bugess's long balls + Triantis I think we could be deadly on quick counters with Toure, Irankunda and Goodwin in a front three. If we go quick. And we'd still be defensively robust, especially if paired with someone like Irvine, Balard, O'Neill or Luongo in front of a back four.

 

[grazorblade]

Fantastic video. Such a well rounded player. I think Triantis would really worry Asian teams. His screening, dribbling, close ball control, long balls, willingness to shoot and threat from set pieces is a tricky combination.

With Souttar and Bugess's long balls + Triantis I think we could be deadly on quick counters with Toure, Irankunda and Goodwin 8n a front three. If we go quick. And we'd still be defensively robust, especially if paired with someone like Irvine, Balard, O'Neill or Luongo in front of a back four.

the speed and accuracy of those long passes is a sight to behold and would be a real asset even against a deep block

Vellupilay had a couple of quick long passes in build up that caught my eye on the weekend too. I was surprised that was a part of his skill set given he is a forward

 

[Bbouy]

I've only seen a few highlights of Volpato and thought it was pretty meh.

He also seems to be struggling for game time... is he really worth persisting with over someone like Nisbet who desperately wants to play for us?

Lol how are you going to give an opinion when you admitted to only watching a few highlights? Anyone with football IQ who has watched him play properly beyond 10 second edits will tell you how good and he is, he would completely elevate our ceiling instantly and you'll be coming back to this thread praising him. Lmao

 

[Mr Cleansheets]

Lol how are you going to give an opinion when you admitted to only watching a few highlights? Anyone with football IQ who has watched him play properly beyond 10 second edits will tell you how good and he is, he would completely elevate our ceiling instantly and you'll be coming back to this thread praising him. Lmao

Easy tiger... that's why I was asking.

We tend to prefer politeness on this forum.

 

[grazorblade]

Easy tiger... that's why I was asking.

We tend to prefer politeness on this forum.

I think with volpato he is the only cam we have that can make a killer pass from z14. You start to see this skill in younger age groups, but at the moment it balances the team

He is also versatile, being tall and fast he can play on the wing

In terms of his immediate impact I would say he us a similar level to riley mcgree right now, but being younger has a higher ceiling. Probably a similar peak to bresciano if he reaches his potential

 

[Decentric]

People are seriously talking Thurgate when we have Balard, Triantis, Robertson, Nisbet... even Luongo, O'Neill, Devlin, Nieuwenhof, Irvine...

Thurgate's had a good season but there are so many better players ahead of him. I'd pick Segecic or even Okon-Engstler (for the future) ahead of Thurgate.

Thurgate is good on the ball, and off the ball.

He has a good engine too.

Of all those midfielders you 've mentioned, Devlin has struggled with the Socceroos thus far.

Robertson doesn't want to play, and I doubt he is a better jockeyer, tackler, shower and delayer than Thurgate. He would probably be better on the ball though.

Thurgate is a stronger ball winner than Nesbit.

Thurgate overs more ground than O'Neill, meaning he can keep the shape more compact in our Defensive Transitions, after joining the attack going forwards.

Unless Ballard has improved a lot, Thurgate is better on the ball in tight spaces for passing and moving sequences.

Thurgate is better on the ball in tight spaces than Irvine, and possibly almost covers him for engine and off the ball work. Although Irvine scores more goals.

Haven't seen Niew since he played for the Aus U 23s, but he was impressive there, against younger players than what Aus will encounter at senior level. Thurgate has similar qualities.

I saw Triantis play as a CB for the Aus U 23s. He had some bad games. Having said that, Okon has improved immeasurably over the same time span and is a vastly improved player.

My major concern about Thurgate, is he is likely to cede fouls close to our defensive pen box.

Given how well Caceres played against Bahrain, and he keeps improving in his 30s, Thurgate may do really well if he gets a go. We don't know? Geria, Caceres and Matthews have done.

 

[JS96]

Thurgate is good on the ball, and off the ball.

He has a good engine too.

Of all those midfielders you 've mentioned, Devlin has struggled with the Socceroos thus far.

Robertson doesn't want to play, and I doubt he is a better jockeyer, tackler, shower and delayer than Thurgate. He would probably be better on the ball though.

Thurgate is a stronger ball winner than Nesbit.

Thurgate overs more ground than O'Neill, meaning he can keep the shape more compact in our Defensive Transitions, after joining the attack going forwards.

Unless Ballard has improved a lot, Thurgate is better on the ball in tight spaces for passing and moving sequences.

Thurgate is better on the ball in tight spaces than Irvine, and possibly almost covers him for engine and off the ball work. Although Irvine scores more goals.

Haven't seen Niew since he played for the Aus U 23s, but he was impressive there, against younger players than what Aus will encounter at senior level. Thurgate has similar qualities.

I saw Triantis play as a CB for the Aus U 23s. He had some bad games. Having said that, Okon has improved immeasurably over the same time span and is a vastly improved player.

My major concern about Thurgate, is he is likely to cede fouls close to our defensive pen box.

Given how well Caceres played against Bahrain, and he keeps improving in his 30s, Thurgate may do really well if he gets a go. We don't know? Geria, Caceres and Matthews have done.

Thurgate won't look out of place in the national team. Irvine has good positioning and coverage but is our worst on the ball. Why can't we start with other mids then imagine Irvine for the final 30 to close it down?

Caceres it definitely getting picked. If he has a blinder I'm fine with it but this isn't the time for half-hearted performances

 

[grazorblade]

Thurgate won't look out of place in the national team. Irvine has good positioning and coverage but is our worst on the ball. Why can't we start with other mids then imagine Irvine for the final 30 to close it down?

Caceres it definitely getting picked. If he has a blinder I'm fine with it but this isn't the time for half-hearted performances

Irvine is also one of our best goal contributed

 

[Mr Cleansheets]

Thurgate is good on the ball, and off the ball.

He has a good engine too.

Of all those midfielders you 've mentioned, Devlin has struggled with the Socceroos thus far.

Robertson doesn't want to play, and I doubt he is a better jockeyer, tackler, shower and delayer than Thurgate. He would probably be better on the ball though.

Thurgate is a stronger ball winner than Nesbit.

Thurgate overs more ground than O'Neill, meaning he can keep the shape more compact in our Defensive Transitions, after joining the attack going forwards.

Unless Ballard has improved a lot, Thurgate is better on the ball in tight spaces for passing and moving sequences.

Thurgate is better on the ball in tight spaces than Irvine, and possibly almost covers him for engine and off the ball work. Although Irvine scores more goals.

Haven't seen Niew since he played for the Aus U 23s, but he was impressive there, against younger players than what Aus will encounter at senior level. Thurgate has similar qualities.

I saw Triantis play as a CB for the Aus U 23s. He had some bad games. Having said that, Okon has improved immeasurably over the same time span and is a vastly improved player.

My major concern about Thurgate, is he is likely to cede fouls close to our defensive pen box.

Given how well Caceres played against Bahrain, and he keeps improving in his 30s, Thurgate may do really well if he gets a go. We don't know? Geria, Caceres and Matthews have done.

Well, it's all about opinions but you've not been keeping up with Balard's and Triantis' careers. Both (esp Triantis) are winning frequent MOTM awards - Balard is one of the most effective players in the Eredivisie and Triantis is proving week after week that he's too good for the SPL. The SPL may not be much of a technical league but it's very fast and the expectations are massive - as Nisbet is finding. I don't know where you get your ideas on Nisbet - ball winning is one of his high points and passes to set up chances through the channels... well, he's the best technician we have. It's why he won the Johnny Warren medal last year. His and Balard's departure to Europe are the main reason the Mariners are struggling this year.

Thurgate is a decent player and having a good year but in my view he's a long way behind those other players. If he was selected I'd suspect the FA are trying to save on airfares.