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The Australian Championship Thread

I wonder if there is a crowd drop moving to winter now we have the big bash league to compete with and go deep into the nrl and afl seasons anyway

Has someone done an analysis on how much crowds compare if big bash, nrl/afl is on vs a weekend of clear air?
Yeah would be interesting to see the March to May numbers. I'd say there would be a drop but it's just a hunch based on what happened during the NSL.

I think the argument around broadcast dollars is even more important. Broadcasters just don't want anything to do with soccer in winter. Even though we're not earning much today and coming up against BBL and NBL, it would be disastrous in winter. Disastrous as in $0.
 
IMO this should also have certain precursors like any future expansion will need to be only via NST first (ie Tasmania, Canberra etc)

I mentioned this on the old forum half jokingly... but why not chuck everyone in the A-League for a single round-robin? Then split into two divisions.

Add something like this to get to 28 teams:
Adelaide City - NPL
Gold Coast United - NPL
Ipswich FC - NPL
Preston - NPL
South Melbourne - NPL
Sunshine Coast Wanderers - NPL
Sydney 58 - NPL
Sydney Olympic - NPL
Tasmania/South Hobart - NPL
Toowoomba/SWQ Thunder - NPL
Townsville Fury - NPL
Wollongong - NPL
Canberra United - APL
Christchurch - APL
Geelong - APL

It's not unprecedented in world football, some huge leagues out there today doing single RR. Do this for three years then split 14 teams in each.

If they want to build it over a few years it would still work. The season would be capped at 27 to 30 rounds regardless.

Gives everyone time in the spotlight and a headstart, touch every market, keep the big clubs happy, gain sponsors, grow etc.

It's crazy and no one probably wants it, but it has benefits. Would be nuts to see.
 
Yeah would be interesting to see the March to May numbers. I'd say there would be a drop but it's just a hunch based on what happened during the NSL.

I think the argument around broadcast dollars is even more important. Broadcasters just don't want anything to do with soccer in winter. Even though we're not earning much today and coming up against BBL and NBL, it would be disastrous in winter. Disastrous as in $0.
If that's true then unfortunately that argument wins even if the football suffers

We are barely holding on to a professional league as is
 
Been reading some articles from 2019 about the NST and what FFA, AAFC, and PFA were discussing. Interstingly, they wanted to have clubs from geographic areas that didn't already have an A-League club... and we've ended up with seven clubs from Sydney and Melbourne haha... and Wollongong.

Another key milestone has been cleared in the mission to establish a national second division to underpin the A-League. A 'white paper' has been written and submitted to the members of the Second Division Working Group, who have been meeting over the past month to find a way to make this long-held dream become a reality.

The paper is 40 pages long, contains 25 recommendations and will apparently be released publicly at some stage in the near future. It should make for very interesting reading, but the Hairdryer keeps hearing one word which sums up what it is trying to achieve: incubator.

As in, the second division will serve as an incubator for aspiring A-League clubs, with future expansion to come straight from the new tier of national football - rather than out of thin air like Western United or Macarthur-South West United.

A national second division would serve as an "incubator" for future expansion teams and could potentially include reserves sides from bigger A-League clubs, according to a document that is set to be tabled to the Football Federation Australia board.

The Herald has obtained a copy of the 40-page 'white paper' written by FFA, in conjunction with the Australian Association of Football Clubs (AAFC) and Professional Footballers Australia (PFA), which has been borne out of the National Second Division Working Group's recent meetings.

It recommends the formation of a second division in time for the 2021-22 season, comprising between eight to 12 clubs - with a focus on key markets not currently serviced by the A-League - and operated by FFA in the initial period.

The document, which is marked as a draft and is understood to be for discussion purposes only at this stage, is by no means a final blueprint and many details remain scarce or unresolved. For instance, whether the second division's season would take place in the winter or summer is subject to further discussions amongst stakeholders.

Nor does the paper prescribe a financial model for the second division, which remains one of the major sticking points between the AAFC and the PFA, whose independent modelling has yielded starkly contrasting figures. The AAFC believes each club could operate on an annual budget of $2.5 million, while the PFA believes $5.36m would be required to cover costs each year.

However, the document is intended to serve as a platform upon which these issues, and others, can be reconciled in accordance with the ultimate "financial parameters" of the new competition.

"FFA has also completed high level analysis on a cost basis for a national second division ... (and) is of the view that the commercial model should be aligned with the principle of being financially sustainable," it says. "As such, a cost structure should reflect the amount of revenues that are likely to be achieved by the NSD."

As for promotion and relegation, the paper describes it as "arguably the most vexed question" in the game but also the ultimate objective of any second division.

"To purists it is the holy grail of football ... counterbalancing this system of meritocracy however are the twin realities of challenging economics and the existing licensing framework which (A-League) Clubs are operating under, and which has guaranteed participants a closed model at the highest level of Club competition in this country," it says.

Second-tier competition models for other codes including the AFL, NRL and National Rugby Championship are considered and examined by the document, as well as lower-tier football leagues in countries such as Japan, the United States and the Netherlands.

It proposes an "runway" phase of between two and five years at the start of the second division during which clubs could prepare for possible consideration in becoming the next A-League expansion team, as the top tier grows from 12 to 14 or possibly 16 franchises.

A mix of existing NPL teams and new entities is anticipated for the second division. Failed A-League expansion bids such as Team 11, South Melbourne, Canberra and Wollongong would be viewed favourably, with an aim for all clubs to average attendances of at least 3000 by year three.

Foreign players would be capped at two for each team, while feeder relationships with A-League sides are proposed, as well as the possible future admission of A-League reserves teams.

"Consideration ... needs to be given to the uniqueness of the Australian sporting landscape and the need to not just reflect but indeed continue to nourish the national footprint of our game, which is its great comparative advantage to the other football codes," the paper says.

"Accordingly it is key that large metropolitan markets are activated as well as (potentially) strategically important teams such as reserve teams from the larger HAL clubs (as per the Dutch model)."

Pro-rel with the 'third tier' NPL system would be introduced in year five, and with the A-League at some point after that. However, the document says simply winning the second division should not necessarily lead to automatic promotion to the A-League, and that other "non-football criteria" would need to be discussed, determined and ultimately met by any clubs which go up.

FFA believes it is best placed to run the second division and will sound out Fox Sports to ascertain if they have an appetite to broadcast matches. With no TV revenue likely in the initial years, the paper suggests a revenue/cost share broadcast model would be required, much like what Super Netball and the NBL has in place, in combination with online streaming.

It is recommended that a centralised approach is taken towards sponsorship, given the competitive nature of the Australian sporting market, with a singular apparel sponsor - like Reebok in the early days of the A-League - likely to cover all second division teams.

There is also the possibility that government money could be secured to help partially underwrite the competition - not only for individual clubs, but the central operating costs of the league, as well as the potential that funds for broadcasting “community and niche sports” could be unlocked.
 
Been reading some articles from 2019 about the NST and what FFA, AAFC, and PFA were discussing. Interstingly, they wanted to have clubs from geographic areas that didn't already have an A-League club... and we've ended up with seven clubs from Sydney and Melbourne haha... and Wollongong.
HG again you have outdone yourself...that full document would be a fantastic read in depth.
if nothing it makes for interesting debate with some serious merrits and some more serious shortfalls aswell..especially the Pro/rel and which stakeholders would have that final say and on what (possible shifting) criteria exactly? but thats for the lawyers i guess!
IMO its generally a model that most teams/supporters couldve gotten behind, and could serve as the potential framework of the NST, if those kinks were ironed out that is!
 
HG again you have outdone yourself...that full document would be a fantastic read in depth.

Merry Christmas @Hellenic_blue&white 👍🏼 The document seems to have been removed from most sites, but I found a copy on AAFC. Absolutely worth the read:


Key points or quotes:

They wanted the NST to launch in 2022, the COVID happened.

“A National Second Division should not be a retirement league for former HAL players”

“The overall aim of the National Second Division should be to have a group of Australian players that are fully professional. However, this could consider being professional throughout the course of a year, but generating their income from multiple teams/sources across NPL, HAL and National Second Division using either loan agreements or separate contracts.”

“To enable this, it could include establishing loans and contracts in either of the following ways:
• Loans to/from HAL academies and NPL clubs; and
• Feeder relationships between existing HAL clubs and National Second Division clubs.”

“There were up to 10 catchments that could hypothetically sustain a new HAL club now or in the future. In addition to this, the HAL research also identified that there are a number of markets that have large participation bases, or reasonably sized populations, that could feasibly support a small HAL team further into the future, as they grow. Alternatively, FFA concluded, those areas could be part of a National Second Division.”

“15 expressions of interest were received for a licence to compete in HAL”
“The quality of the bids was mostly strong, suggesting that there could be some existing NPL clubs and new teams that could feasibly step up to the standards required to deliver a National Second Division at a higher standard than the current NPL.”

“A National Second Division could feasibly capture smaller cities that are not currently represented by elite professional football clubs.”
“It is also possible that teams within a National Second Division could tap into new and old demographics. Notably, many football fans who may have been previously connected to the NSL or NPL, but who are not currently connected to the top tier of Australian football.”

“A national second division structure should consider how best it would be bundled with HAL content to maximise the potential size of the audience over time. Any further analysis of the National Second Division should consider this product mix, including the potential markets that it would seek to enter (both geographic and demographic) to maximise the potential footprint for football.”

“A National Second Division should provide a five (5) year “runway” to incubate new teams. These teams could then form part of the future expansion process for HAL. Consideration should be provided to including the existing Y-League, HAL academy and squad players within a national second division. In this way, the best talent should be playing regularly. Moreover, many of these players are already contracted, potentially underwriting the costs of the National Second Division. A National Second Division should identify large geographic areas (including cities and towns) that do not currently have professional football teams. Where there is significant interest in football or a large participant base, thought should be given to including such geographic areas in the National Second Division.”

Season. “A number of options should be considered:
• A winter season which does not conflict with HAL, and provides a winter offering for football fans. This could also coincide with the regular grassroots season enabling connection with the grassroots football community and to work on converting them into fans;
• An abbreviated season (10-16 weeks) that is played on the shoulder season of either the NPL or HAL;
• A full or partial season that runs in parallel with HAL and WWL; or
• A combination/hybrid of any of the above. Each option should be assessed taking into account the broadcast parameters”

“Match day starting line-up:
• Minimum of 2-3 U21 Australian players;
• Minimum of 2-3 U23 Australian players; and
• Maximum of two (2) foreign players

Regulation. “To attain the official sanctioning of FFA, it may be required to demonstrate the following (for example):
• Minimum 75% of clubs in cities with a population catchment of over 250,000;
• A plan to see a minimum of 75% of clubs reaching 3,000 average attendance by year three (3). In the event that a club is not achieving an average of 2,000, it would be required to provide a plan to achieve above that level; and
• Solvency of the league operations, with sufficient levels of working capital and paid up capital.”

“A five (5) year period is also likely to be required to allow for the piloting and stabilisation of the National Second Division competition. This would take both competitions into the new broadcast cycle. No promotion and relegation would apply between NPL 1 and National Second Division during this incubation period.”

“The objective is to synchronise promotion and relegation at year five (5) between NPL 1 and the National Second Division and between the National Second Division and HAL at the appropriate point during this second window.
“Promotion from the National Second Division to HAL will need to take into account a range of criteria beyond simply winning the National Second Division championship.”

“The Working group is generally supportive of a fully professional league, however financial sustainability is also a pre-requisite and may result in some flexibility in the early formation of the National Second Division. The final commercial model should consider the following:
• Broadcast and sponsorship revenues;
• Season timing and length;
• Number of clubs;
• Ability to integrate with existing HAL, Y-League and NPL structures to maximise the use of finite resources.”
 
Slightly different topic, but I wonder if there would be 1t expressions of interest if the a league did expansion today? Specifying that it has to be Canberra is weird
 
Slightly different topic, but I wonder if there would be 1t expressions of interest if the a league did expansion today? Specifying that it has to be Canberra is weird
One thing that stood out for me from the white paper was the mention of 250,000 population catchments. So, I dug up the catchments over 250k (plus Townsville) and their growth since 2001. The growth areas are pretty much dominated by Queensland.

1736369805374.png
 
One thing that stood out for me from the white paper was the mention of 250,000 population catchments. So, I dug up the catchments over 250k (plus Townsville) and their growth since 2001. The growth areas are pretty much dominated by Queensland.

View attachment 727
HG fantastic research yet again.. 👏

Debate wise IMO in theory this could work with possible mix of existing & new market but cant work with either alone.
Existing being the NST clubs
South covers melb inner & south.
Preston covers melb north.
Avondale is questionable crowd wise but may fall central/west - clashing with western utd though.

Second Adelaide team (necessary & future local derby creation)
Second WA team (as above)
Second bris/gold coast team.
Ideally established sides like Brisbane city, Adelaide city perhaps.

Wollongong
Olympic, syd utd, Marconi and/or apia.

Canberra, tasmania, darwin (Perhaps)

Perhaps move Western utd to Geelong for half games city to dandenong region and leaves sth and victory inner melb. Perhaps Avondale towards the west. To cover all catchments zones for Vic.

Something similar for NSW perhaps.

That makes 14 teams and a good base for a second division that fulfils both the plan for new markets while expanding the existing. I know the number of teams may saturate melb syd market but either way they are the basis for Most support anyway.

The initial 3k support figure should easily be covered by all the above questions marks for Avondale, Darwin

All speculation, (even wishful thinking perhaps) but more the debate of ideas i guess.
 
Slightly different topic, but I wonder if there would be 1t expressions of interest if the a league did expansion today? Specifying that it has to be Canberra is weird
I think that would solely be based on the capital required $5mill+ would limit that dramatically i think, look at the troubles they already having with franchises . $2.5mill would be more based in reality to allow for more interest from established clubs also if they were actually and sincerely allowed to enter the race that is!
 
wasn't there another rfp done at the end of last year? Any rumours on that?
As of October 2024 (below from FA announcement) 8 x clubs have "passed" both technical elements and financial with a further 6 just "failing" on financials.... nothing since... unless I missed it.

Over the past 12 months, Football Australia has undertaken two comprehensive Request for Proposal (RFP) processes to select NST clubs. This work, supported by advisory partner BDO, has successfully identified 14 clubs representing six states and territories that have each passed the technical elements of the NST RFP process.

Six of the 14 clubs were unable to meet the mandatory financial requirements required to play in a standalone NST home & away league competition prior to the deadline in June 2024, however Football Australia will continue to monitor these clubs as they seek to advance their bid proposals.

Football Australia has also committed to a third NST RFP selection process, expanded to target clubs outside of the initial Expression of Interest process and predominantly from underrepresented states. It is hoped this enhanced national focus will identify additional foundation clubs
 
As of October 2024 (below from FA announcement) 8 x clubs have "passed" both technical elements and financial with a further 6 just "failing" on financials.... nothing since... unless I missed it.

Over the past 12 months, Football Australia has undertaken two comprehensive Request for Proposal (RFP) processes to select NST clubs. This work, supported by advisory partner BDO, has successfully identified 14 clubs representing six states and territories that have each passed the technical elements of the NST RFP process.

Six of the 14 clubs were unable to meet the mandatory financial requirements required to play in a standalone NST home & away league competition prior to the deadline in June 2024, however Football Australia will continue to monitor these clubs as they seek to advance their bid proposals.

Football Australia has also committed to a third NST RFP selection process, expanded to target clubs outside of the initial Expression of Interest process and predominantly from underrepresented states. It is hoped this enhanced national focus will identify additional foundation clubs
One thing you can say about the lack of speed in this is that FA don’t want another league limping along for 20 years, like the A League , through poor management.
 
Melbourne Knights commentary on the white paper from six years ago. The Knights always seem to impress me with their vision.


Probably the only thing I would adjust in this response is that they want pro\rel with NPL immediately but have the NST aligned with A-League... That's not possible without butchering clubs' seasons, as I explained earlier. Clubs that are relegated would have to miss entire seasons.

The only way pro\rel will work is either have all the pyramid aligned with A-League, or have the NST season in the middle of the NPL and A-League seasons. I can't see the lower tiers shifting to summer, so the "inbetween" NST is the most feasible option.
 
One thing you can say about the lack of speed in this is that FA don’t want another league limping along for 20 years, like the A League , through poor management.
Actually a good point. But we are presuming the league is going to be ran poorly, before even knowing who is actually running it, the FA should be able to exercise some sort of control surely? But look your probably right.
 
Actually a good point. But we are presuming the league is going to be ran poorly, before even knowing who is actually running it, the FA should be able to exercise some sort of control surely? But look your probably right.
As far as I’m aware ‘The Championship’ will be administered by Football Australia so they don’t want the thing to collapse through mismanagement. Hence the caution in getting it underway.
 
Melbourne Knights commentary on the white paper from six years ago. The Knights always seem to impress me with their vision.


Probably the only thing I would adjust in this response is that they want pro\rel with NPL immediately but have the NST aligned with A-League... That's not possible without butchering clubs' seasons, as I explained earlier. Clubs that are relegated would have to miss entire seasons.

The only way pro\rel will work is either have all the pyramid aligned with A-League, or have the NST season in the middle of the NPL and A-League seasons. I can't see the lower tiers shifting to summer, so the "inbetween" NST is the most feasible option.
Their stubborn as shit down at Somers Street, but its all about the football.......
 
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