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Best overseas leagues for Aussies?

grazorblade said:
I think Uruguay would be the only country in that category?

I think the fraction of participants matters, not just total participants

If a high enough fraction are playing the game then it becomes default for people to bring a football to neighbourly get together
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Sure, OK, I didnt check the FIFA rankings but fact remains... 1.somthing mill ISNT a small player base.... Thats the entire population of some smaller Euro coutnries...

What about Senegal that just beat teh Three Lions., would THEY have 1. something million organised football participants in an impoverished third world country of under 20 million people? I doubt they would have that many soccer boots....
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Sure, OK, I didnt check the FIFA rankings but fact remains... 1.somthing mill ISNT a small player base.... Thats the entire population of some smaller Euro coutnries...

What about Senegal that just beat teh Three Lions., would THEY have 1. something million organised football participants in an impoverished third world country of under 20 million people? I doubt they would have that many soccer boots....
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hard to get data on a country like senegal

its possible even more play, albeit informally

African countries are strange, there appears to always be some african countries that are amazing for a period only to dramatically drop in quality. See for instance these teams that have a period where they are briefly a powerhouse only to end up worse than new zealand

Ghana national team

www.international-football.net www.international-football.net

Ivory Coast national team

www.international-football.net www.international-football.net
 
grazorblade said:
hard to get data on a country like senegal

its possible even more play, albeit informally

African countries are strange, there appears to always be some african countries that are amazing for a period only to dramatically drop in quality. See for instance these teams that have a period where they are briefly a powerhouse only to end up worse than new zealand

Ghana national team

www.international-football.net www.international-football.net

Ivory Coast national team

www.international-football.net www.international-football.net
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sure, but you cant tell me the infrastructure and fiances would be anywhere near on par with us....

Fact is we have, comparatively speaking with other nations of a similar or less population, a massive participation rate that DOESN'T reflect in overall player development...
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
sure, but you cant tell me the infrastructure and fiances would be anywhere near on par with us....

Fact is we have, comparatively speaking with other nations of a similar or less population, a massive participation rate that DOESN'T reflect in overall player development...
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If I just gather countries with similar or smaller participation numbers (looking at total numbers not fraction) I get this order in fifa rankings

1. Portrugal
2. Belgium
3. Croatia
4. Uruguay
5. Switzerland
6. Denmark
7. Austria
8. South Korea
9. Australia
10. Sweden
11. Wales
12. Canada
13. Panama
14. Norway
15. Peru
16. Scotland

Reckon it's not bad since all those other nations have p&r, multiple national divisions and a national youth league and most have a higher fraction playing the game. Granted those disadvantages are self inflicted....
 
LFC said:
CS, well isn't that we don't play enough games and not competitive enough as well, APL clubs have nurtured their Jnrs professionally with resource hence the Jnr's dominating games against who ? semi pro/amatuers, there is only 13 Pro clubs divide that by how MANY talented local NPL/SAP kids miss the boat not even being looked at.
So no its not working no where as good as it could be, infact we are allowing countless of them slip through the cracks to the other codes with more resource but more so not saying NO we can't fit you in.
Many promising kids who work their butts off get peeved off and may not go to other codes but accept playing with mates in Association Clubs or plod along in NPL1/2/3.
We could have such a large pool to work with.
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Sorry good is a good point on the number of teams. I was talking more about the structure of the junior teams for each aleague club. But yes in terms of number of teams it is far too few. Talented kids get missed in England with their number of clubs, so they will absolutely be missed here.

On the other sport aspect. I don't think there is much of an argument you can make. The strength of other sports in other countries is not comparable to afl, league and cricket here. This has clear flow on effect. The best talent is drawn to career pathways and visibility offered by those other sports. Just imagine the afl and league teams as football clubs and those salary caps folding into professional football here.
 
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Cunningstunt said:
Sorry good is a good point on the number of teams. I was talking more about the structure of the junior teams for each aleague club. But yes in terms of number of teams it is far too few. Talented kids get missed in England with their number of clubs, so they will absolutely be missed here.

On the other sport aspect. I don't think there is much of an argument you can make. The strength of other sports in other countries is not comparable to afl, league and cricket here. This has clear flow on effect. The best talent is drawn to career pathways and visibility offered by those other sports. Just imagine the afl and league teams as football clubs and those salary caps folding into professional football here.
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It is noticeable that the first 2 academy players to make the big 5 (being generous with the word "make") were both cut from their academies- volpato and circati
 
grazorblade said:
If I just gather countries with similar or smaller participation numbers (looking at total numbers not fraction) I get this order in fifa rankings

1. Portrugal
2. Belgium
3. Croatia
4. Uruguay
5. Switzerland
6. Denmark
7. Austria
8. South Korea
9. Australia
10. Sweden
11. Wales
12. Canada
13. Panama
14. Norway
15. Peru
16. Scotland

Reckon it's not bad since all those other nations have p&r, multiple national divisions and a national youth league and most have a higher fraction playing the game. Granted those disadvantages are self inflicted....
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Sure but my contention was more around participation vs population...

Portugal has 1/2 the population of Australia... Croatia has even less than that...
 
grazorblade said:
In the UK 11.8-14million play football regularly compared to 7.5 million in france

This compares to 1.3 million in Australia (just counting players). In percentage terms France gets 11%, UK gets near 25% and we get 5%

We are actually a low participation country by football standards
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UK and France already have bigger populations than Australia.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Sure but my contention was more around participation vs population...

Portugal has 1/2 the population of Australia... Croatia has even less than that...
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Maybe I'm confused about your point and we are talking past each other
my point (which might not contradict what you are saying) is that participation rate, both the total player base and the fraction playing, is one important factor in producing good players and we are pretty small on both fronts. Not the only factor of course
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Sure but my contention was more around participation vs population...

Portugal has 1/2 the population of Australia... Croatia has even less than that...
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A great read on this type of stuff is Soccernomics. It talks about the minimum amount of average income needed to allow professional athletes to develop, how being in the centre of Europe allows for the easy flow of knowledge and a whole lot more. Population is one part of it.
 
Cunningstunt said:
A great read on this type of stuff is Soccernomics. It talks about the minimum amount of average income needed to allow professional athletes to develop, how being in the centre of Europe allows for the easy flow of knowledge and a whole lot more. Population is one part of it.
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I definitely should read it but a bit skeptical since they claimed Australia and Iraq are going to become powerhouses
 
grazorblade said:
Maybe I'm confused about your point and we are talking past each other
my point (which might not contradict what you are saying) is that participation rate, both the total player base and the fraction playing, is one important factor in producing good players and we are pretty small on both fronts. Not the only factor of course
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I thnik we are, I agree, as a percentage of our population... sure, and also agree with above posters that perhaps we DO lose some athletes to other more popular sports.

What Im trying, in my usual hamfisted way, to say is that a player pool of 1.4 million current players SHOULD be enough to develop a national frist 11 that is ALOT more competitive on the world stage...

nevermind the kids we lose along the way to AFL, NRL, other interest, other sports, whatever... what about the 1.4 (sorry if this number is wrong but you catch my drift) million players, learning under a purported national curriculum which is "worlds best practice" yet we have half a dozen benchies in the world's top 5 leagues and a whole bunch of kids struggling to get match time in second divisions or second rate Euro comps..... The "results' belie the concept.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
I thnik we are, I agree, as apercentage of our poluation... sure, and alsow agree with above psoters that perhaps we DO lose some athletes to other more popular sports.

What Im trying, in my usual hamfisted way, to say is that a player pool of 1.4 million current players SHOULD be enough to develop a national frist 11 that is ALOT more competitive on the world stage...

nevermind the kids we lose along the way to AFL, NRL, other interest, other sports, whatever... what about the 1.4 (sorry if this number is wrong but you catch my drift) million players, learning under a purported national curriculum which is "worlds best practice" yet we have half a dozen benchies in the world's top 5 leagues and a whole bunch of kids struggling to get match time in second divisions or second rate Euro comps..... The "results' belie the concept.
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I guess the word "should" is where I got confused. When you say should, do you mean in the current environment with a closed league with 11 teams and no national youth league, 5% play the game - 1.3 mil - we should produce a better team?
 
grazorblade said:
I guess the word "should" is where I got confused. When you say should, do you mean in the current environment with a closed league with 11 teams and no national youth league, 5% play the game - 1.3 mil - we should produce a better team?
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Hahaha well...... we all know where I stand on the "current environment with a closed league with 11 teams and no national youth league" side of the argument... :P

Thats exactly one of the main factors holding us back is what Im saying to be clear :)
 
Cunningstunt said:
I believe they revised us out of that line in the later editions if that makes you feel better haha
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haha not really!
Taking bad predictions out of what should be an academic analysis is bad practice!
You need to keep your dirty laundry, especially your bad predictions so people can see how reliable your modeling is
 
grazorblade said:
haha not really!
Taking bad predictions out of what should be an academic analysis is bad practice!
You need to keep your dirty laundry, especially your bad predictions so people can see how reliable your modeling is
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I haven't read it in years. Might be time to read it again. I think their mistake was thinking afl, league etc would diminish and football would fill the space as ithas everywhere else in the world. If this happened it probably isn't an unreasonable thought. But they didn't understand the hold those sports have.
 
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