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The Western United Thread

BA81 said:
The exception I’d make is for a Tasmanian side representing the whole state(and the time for FFA/APL to strike on that is now; take advantage of the AFL’s expansion fuck-up there). That being said, they don’t have to join the A-League straightaway; they can start out in The Championship, as can any other created-from-scratch sides representing regions such as Geelong, Ballarat, Townsville, Cairns etc.
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A Tasmanian side would fit my exception provided it was the current organisation getting together rather than a new organisation outside of Football Tasmania
 
Hellenic_blue&white said:
Only BS i see is the fact you can claim your league is the premier comp in this country.. you arent even proud enough to display a logo there champ whats that tell ya?!

Tonset the record straight, you are again categorically wrong! That was an initial want yes, a long long time ago, naturally that may even be a want some still have, not me! All i want is the dissolution of your league! Even just to live the hypocricy that will follow from many of you if the roles became reversed! No question about the inability to survive something like that!

You can never sell me the idea that playing a souless sydney, or city, or even MV, in any way can trump what i have lived against, the Croatias, against Marconi, Adelqide City so on and so forth... its that simple!
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So I take it you won’t be going to the match against Auckland, or watching it on tv, or checking highlights/results online? Yeah right…………
 
Frankly Speaking said:
Very unlikely re South Melbourne. APL will be glad to be rid of the bye.

Mid, pro rel is never going to happen. There isn't enough money in the system. None of the NPL teams except South Melbourne can afford to be promoted.
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yep agree and Mid don't think any of us say P/R will happen any time soon - thats somewhere over the rainbow.
We need the Championship or whatever transpires this to first get runs on the board and earn its $ gaining stability.
In fact even more now this is Important to get in the making/planning for who knows whats going to happen with the APLmlsleague not just next season the next few......
More than ever we need a back up and thats the banished Clubs, talk about possible payback !

I get your sadness but seriously that the problem when its main component is "business" in the passion field perspective.
High risk no diff to any small business openning up - thats this models achilles heal big time in this small outpost.
Look at their crowds after all the money spent, all the background smoke and mirrors, is that fair to their few supporters ? fair to the game ?
Ofcourse not, more so feel sad what damage this mess of a system is doing to our game - thats whats sad.
 
Frankly Speaking said:
Mid, pro rel is never going to happen. There isn't enough money in the system. None of the NPL teams except South Melbourne can afford to be promoted.
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If you deregulated and abolished all minimum criteria there would be 30 clubs capable of playing on the national level within a season or two. As those clubs naturally sort themselves into leagues the top leagues would be higher standard than what you can achieve through regulation

the tough lesson is that you cannot regulate your way to prosperity. But this is the consensus of every left wing economist and center left party in the western world. You can regulate moral goals - e.g. players still have to be paid if they do their ACL, but thats it. (I don't mention right wing economists/parties. They of course agree but also don't think you can regulate moral goals)

We have tried to regulate youth academies to a higher standard with licensing criteria and the result of super expensive youth fees

we have tried to regulate the minimum standards of the nst to only cause indefinite delay

we have tried to regulate our way to a higher quality top division only to cause decades of stagnation and the death of our player pathways (partially reintroduced in 2014)

Of course it feels like there isn't enough money in the game when we use soviet era economic theories. We need to deregulate at all levels. Even starting a club at the bottom of the pyramid is needlessly complex compared to England
 
grazorblade said:
If you deregulated and abolished all minimum criteria there would be 30 clubs capable of playing on the national level within a season or two. As those clubs naturally sort themselves into leagues the top leagues would be higher standard than what you can achieve through regulation

the tough lesson is that you cannot regulate your way to prosperity. But this is the consensus of every left wing economist and center left party in the western world. You can regulate moral goals - e.g. players still have to be paid if they do their ACL, but thats it. (I don't mention right wing economists/parties. They of course agree but also don't think you can regulate moral goals)

We have tried to regulate youth academies to a higher standard with licensing criteria and the result of super expensive youth fees

we have tried to regulate the minimum standards of the nst to only cause indefinite delay

we have tried to regulate our way to a higher quality top division only to cause decades of stagnation and the death of our player pathways (partially reintroduced in 2014)

Of course it feels like there isn't enough money in the game when we use soviet era economic theories. We need to deregulate at all levels. Even starting a club at the bottom of the pyramid is needlessly complex compared to England
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We will have to disagree on this. In my view, the NSD process demonstrated the financial issues in a large, geographically disparate country. If we were the size of England, sure. From the evidence so far, only South Melbourne could afford to support a professional national league team. I don't know how you arrive at a figure of 20-30 clubs able to do so in a season two. Frankly, that defies credulity. If we assume $5 million per year, which is low, you are suggesting that for 30 clubs $150 million in collective expenditure will somehow be possible, per season.
 
Frankly Speaking said:
We will have to disagree on this. In my view, the NSD process demonstrated the financial issues in a large, geographically disparate country. If we were the size of England, sure. From the evidence so far, only South Melbourne could afford to support a professional national league team. I don't know how you arrive at a figure of 20-30 clubs able to do so in a season two. Frankly, that defies credulity.
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There are 30 clubs that still exist that have competed at some time on the national stage and there are 31 clubs that were part of the original aafc bid

not a single club I have spoken to has said they can't cover the travel costs. Unfortunately the criteria is covered under nda (interestingly enough even the unnecessary 500k bank deposit isn't the hold up)
 
grazorblade said:
There are 30 clubs that still exist that have competed at some time on the national stage and there are 31 clubs that were part of the original aafc bid

not a single club I have spoken to has said they can't cover the travel costs. Unfortunately the criteria is covered under nda (interestingly enough even the unnecessary 500k bank deposit isn't the hold up)
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It doesn't pass the pub test. How many of these 20 - 30 clubs have you personally spoken to, and how can you be confident the information is credible?
 
Midfielder said:
Seriously mate..... you are a better and more loyal fan than someone who follows a A-L team....
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I never said i was any of that! ... but since you question it here goes... Proof of loyalty is my last 20 years!
Midfielder said:
but be a national competition with large media deals and huge crowds .... not going to happen if the A-L falls over...
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Football never died when they forcefully folded he NSL with lies and deceit and it will outsurvive the folding of this monstorcity when it finally comes!

Midfielder said:
I don't want anyone or any competition to fall over from a park team up.... I find it sad another team has folded...
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Where as I bask in reality once again outing the blatant hypocricy that was and is that system and league including its frnachises!
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Yet your biggest crowd in over 20 years was against “ soulless Sydney “ mmmm
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We are SMFC we get crowds what can i say!! Should scare you though bc that just proves our points much to your dismay i bet!

Let me guess your next argument will be that your "loyal" fans travelled down in droves to see this one!
 
Hellenic_blue&white said:
We are SMFC we get crowds what can i say!! Should scare you though bc that just proves our points much to your dismay i bet!

Let me guess your next argument will be that your "loyal" fans travelled down in droves to see this one!
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Yes, but SMH superfan you said that SMH supporters would never go to games against A-League teams LOL
 
I reckon there might be a decent crowd to watch the game against Auckland, what say ye?
 
Frankly Speaking said:
It doesn't pass the pub test. How many of these 20 - 30 clubs have you personally spoken to, and how can you be confident the information is credible?
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Just 2 on the record (one released the next on sunday), but more importantly it is historical record that we have 41 teams that have played on the national level and over 30 teams were part of the aafc proposal. Regulation increases the risk of operations and the fa rejected the aafc model to have a higher minimum criteria (at the cost of having no home and away nst at all so far)

Clubs are unfortunately covered by ndas about what the criteria is, but Im trying to find a way to get the criteria released
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Yet your biggest crowd in over 20 years was against “ soulless Sydney “ mmmm
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Sutho but thats a obvious smoking gun for any of us in NPL - you know, Pro vs the Semi's, Pro/Franchise vs Ol banished Clubs, like come on nothing better than any povvo NPL Club giving it to AL/APL Clubs who have looked down on you.
In someways its like we are actually punching Lowy in the guts for thats what he deserved what he did to our game.
Thats how deep it is for some of us - put yourself in those shoes, no not Lowys hahaha ;)
 
LFC said:
Sutho but thats a obvious smoking gun for any of us in NPL - you know, Pro vs the Semi's, Pro/Franchise vs Ol banished Clubs, like come on nothing better than any povvo NPL Club giving it to AL/APL Clubs who have looked down on you.
In someways its like we are actually punching Lowy in the guts for thats what he deserved what he did to our game.
Thats how deep it is for some of us - put yourself in those shoes, no not Lowys hahaha ;)
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The point can also be reversed

Having clubs that have played at the top and can survive in the state league with no crowds is a pretty important proof of principle that relegation wont kill clubs
 
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