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Promotion and Relegation is vital for Football in Australia

someguyjc said:
The majority of people directly involved with the game would understand the importance of the P&R structure. It would be undeniable.
Question becomes how does it actually happen? Everyone is quick to point the finger at a single group, but every single group would need to undergo some serious changes and make varying sacrifices to varying degrees.
A-League clubs would need to accept that their licence would now have a on-field performance clause. Reasonable requirements for a promoted club would also need to be implemented. Club values would drop as a result. Many current owners would definitely look for a way out. Harder to get a good price for a club that could be relegated the following season.
NST would first need to exist and then the clubs would need to pretty much accept the same terms as above.
State feds would need to work together. Unlike other places in the world, our (current 2nd), 3rd, 4th, etc tiers are fractured across the states. Who gets promoted into the NST? Number of ways of doing it, but you can guarantee a consensus amongst the states feds and the FA would never be made.
Then there is the FA themaelves. They technically have the power to implement P&R if they wanted. However, seeing as they can't even seem to get a 10 team NST off the ground or a proper domestic transfer system running, P&R seems pretty much unobtainable at this point in time.
So realistically for a complete P&R pyramid to happen, we either need all the decision makers to actually magically agree on everything. Or, the state feds need to be dissolved and absorbed as departments within the FA, the FA then can make decisions on the structure of all NPL's, the NST need to created and have proper P&R clauses in their licence agreements from the beginning, the A-League needs to accept the relegation part of their current licences or have it added when licence renewals happen (whenever that is).
Yeah, not gonna happen.
Then the question becomes, can P&R happen between just the AL and NST or just the NST and NPL? What is involved in each scenario? What is more likely, the APL and FA working together or the State feds and the FA working together. Before I wrote that sentence I would have assumed an NST/NPL pyramid is more obtainable, but reading that out loud I'm not so sure. APL are greedy soul sucker's but so are the state feds. There is also just one APL board, whereas there are a bunch of state fed boards, each with their own agendas and egos. Some of them actively acted against their own clubs simply applying to join the NST.
Maybe one day. Not anytime soon though.
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it would probably take a painful windy road. Probably only 2 ways that aren't mutually exclusive
1) p&r only between nst and npl until the nst grows into something big and stable. If it succeeds to the point of being competitive with the A league that probably forces the issue. If it is more like the second tier in the USA the the apl have incentive to ignore it
2) expand the a league through both licenses and promotion of nst clubs until it gets big enough to split into two. Then at minimum you can have p&r from the 1st to 2nd while also having promotion from the npl to the second. If both leagues get big enough you probably then eventually have p&r from npl to the 2nd
 
Ange's high line said:
P&R would be great although,. I do doubt the wealth of a number of clubs that would perhaps win the NSD & get entry into the top league though. P&R in principle, is the best structure to go with as we all know.
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What about the wealth of a number of clubs who, because there is no relegation, can just flounder around in the same old "entertainment" league every year, not doing or going anywhere?
 
someguyjc said:
The majority of people directly involved with the game would understand the importance of the P&R structure. It would be undeniable.
Question becomes how does it actually happen? Everyone is quick to point the finger at a single group, but every single group would need to undergo some serious changes and make varying sacrifices to varying degrees.
A-League clubs would need to accept that their licence would now have a on-field performance clause. Reasonable requirements for a promoted club would also need to be implemented. Club values would drop as a result. Many current owners would definitely look for a way out. Harder to get a good price for a club that could be relegated the following season.
NST would first need to exist and then the clubs would need to pretty much accept the same terms as above.
State feds would need to work together. Unlike other places in the world, our (current 2nd), 3rd, 4th, etc tiers are fractured across the states. Who gets promoted into the NST? Number of ways of doing it, but you can guarantee a consensus amongst the states feds and the FA would never be made.
Then there is the FA themaelves. They technically have the power to implement P&R if they wanted. However, seeing as they can't even seem to get a 10 team NST off the ground or a proper domestic transfer system running, P&R seems pretty much unobtainable at this point in time.
So realistically for a complete P&R pyramid to happen, we either need all the decision makers to actually magically agree on everything. Or, the state feds need to be dissolved and absorbed as departments within the FA, the FA then can make decisions on the structure of all NPL's, the NST need to created and have proper P&R clauses in their licence agreements from the beginning, the A-League needs to accept the relegation part of their current licences or have it added when licence renewals happen (whenever that is).
Yeah, not gonna happen.
Then the question becomes, can P&R happen between just the AL and NST or just the NST and NPL? What is involved in each scenario? What is more likely, the APL and FA working together or the State feds and the FA working together. Before I wrote that sentence I would have assumed an NST/NPL pyramid is more obtainable, but reading that out loud I'm not so sure. APL are greedy soul sucker's but so are the state feds. There is also just one APL board, whereas there are a bunch of state fed boards, each with their own agendas and egos. Some of them actively acted against their own clubs simply applying to join the NST.
Maybe one day. Not anytime soon though.
Click to expand...
Most NPL teams would not have the finances, stadia requirements and so on to join the NST I would imagine? FA seem to be struggling to get more than 8 teams to join the NST and the main reason for this seems to be finances. It might work if say the NST starts in 2026 and the Premier gets promoted to the A-League making it 14 teams with no relegation. The following season that season’s Premier gets promoted. Ending up with 16 or 18 teams in the A-League with NPL teams moving up from the NPL to NST to replace the promoted teams. Then after 3 or 5 seasons or whatever after the league gets up to 16 or 18 teams, then A-League relegation starts. But even teams going up from NPL to NST would be difficult because they don’t have the money.
 
I wonder if any federation clubs can afford the A-League salary cap floor at the moment? I know they'll receive better sponsorships if they move up, but the costs will also rise.

I think drastically lowering or removing the cap floor is necessary for there to be pro/rel. And probably a luxury tax at the top end. We don't even know if there's meant to be a cap for the NST.

What about academies and women's teams, are they meant to be a requirement of the A-League? We know a number of APL clubs aren't pulling their weight in that regard!

Last season, the Mariners showed what is possible on a tiny budget. On the smell of an oily rag they practically won everything. I can only imagine what some federation clubs would be capable of on minimum resources.
 
HappyGuus said:
I wonder if any federation clubs can afford the A-League salary cap floor at the moment? I know they'll receive better sponsorships if they move up, but the costs will also rise.

I think drastically lowering or removing the cap floor is necessary for there to be pro/rel. And probably a luxury tax at the top end. We don't even know if there's meant to be a cap for the NST.

What about academies and women's teams, are they meant to be a requirement of the A-League? We know a number of APL clubs aren't pulling their weight in that regard!

Last season, the Mariners showed what is possible on a tiny budget. On the smell of an oily rag they practically won everything. I can only imagine what some federation clubs would be capable of on minimum resources.
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I suspect the extra tv revenue for most seasons (not this) as well as sponsorships cover the floor

I'm a little confused what is so expensive about the a league. Is it stadium hire? Is it the cost of full time coaches? Minimum requirements of physios etc?
 
grazorblade said:
I suspect the extra tv revenue for most seasons (not this) as well as sponsorships cover the floor

I'm a little confused what is so expensive about the a league. Is it stadium hire? Is it the cost of full time coaches? Minimum requirements of physios etc?
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Yeah I've had a quick look for APL club financial reports... do they even exist?
 
HappyGuus said:
Yeah I've had a quick look for APL club financial reports... do they even exist?
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don't think so. I'm a little baffled it is not profitable. The average crowd size for the wages we are paying world wide is around 2.5k. So something is deeply wrong here if we are making a loss with crowds 8k+
 
Kitwally said:
Most NPL teams would not have the finances, stadia requirements and so on to join the NST I would imagine? FA seem to be struggling to get more than 8 teams to join the NST and the main reason for this seems to be finances. It might work if say the NST starts in 2026 and the Premier gets promoted to the A-League making it 14 teams with no relegation. The following season that season’s Premier gets promoted. Ending up with 16 or 18 teams in the A-League with NPL teams moving up from the NPL to NST to replace the promoted teams. Then after 3 or 5 seasons or whatever after the league gets up to 16 or 18 teams, then A-League relegation starts. But even teams going up from NPL to NST would be difficult because they don’t have the money.
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FA's Johnson lowers the $500k start up payment, NST would get 20 teams.
 
HappyGuus said:
Yeah I've had a quick look for APL club financial reports... do they even exist?
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Private companies aren't required to publish financial reports .... Aleague "membership" is a season ticket to attend and watch matches not a membership into the running of the club itself...
 
Kitwally said:
Most NPL teams would not have the finances, stadia requirements and so on to join the NST I would imagine? FA seem to be struggling to get more than 8 teams to join the NST and the main reason for this seems to be finances. It might work if say the NST starts in 2026 and the Premier gets promoted to the A-League making it 14 teams with no relegation. The following season that season’s Premier gets promoted. Ending up with 16 or 18 teams in the A-League with NPL teams moving up from the NPL to NST to replace the promoted teams. Then after 3 or 5 seasons or whatever after the league gets up to 16 or 18 teams, then A-League relegation starts. But even teams going up from NPL to NST would be difficult because they don’t have the money.
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quite a few Aleague franchises dont have the finances nor stadium requirements to compete in the Aleague so why is this even an issue at a much lower level?
 
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