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Promotion and Relegation is vital for Football in Australia

I agree completely. Relegation just gets something out that normally lays dormant. Glory NPL players looked so subpar all season, more poor than usual and then when they entered the relegation playoffs against state league clubs they turned on the intensity that majority of those players would never experience in the A-League.
 
Its quite ironic being an ol bloke so many ol ways of life have changed, retail store hours, public hols everything is open where once not, we keep being told don't chanmge your left behind and I agree.
Whereas our game (put aside APL) not much has changed TBH, infact worse due "growth" not being able to service it properly and the lack of direction.
The usual 2 main codes rule the roost even though their game has changed so much, their leagues below have gone backwards but they have copious amounts of $'s backing their top flights, we sweet FA.
P/R, oh no don't talk about it nor bring it up, its costs too much, it won't work, one State has too much input compared to another, those dam east coasters ie NSW and Vic.
Nothing can ever move ahead for the resistance is never ending.
Its bleeting obvious P/R stimulates everything from desire, winning, avoiding relegation, the comps top to bottom ladder makes every game "count".
Yes C O the bonus is the sideline viewers entertainment and that spreads news/word of mouth.
 
grazorblade said:
For those interested some of the evidence supporting p&r

1) clubs gain more in average attendance from getting promoted than they lose getting relegated. So if a club is not big enough for the top league but too big for the 2nd tier, they can grow through multiple years of yoyoing between the leagues. We even saw this effect in the nsl era where 4 teams yoyoed over 16 years and the average boost in crowd numbers from a team that got promoted the year after relegation was around 850. Ideally you want to set up a league structure so that there is a yoyo every year - which probably means eventually have a conference below the top tiers
2) participation rates go up a small amount for grass roots clubs geographically promoted team yet there is no decline in signups if you are near a relegated team
3) The quality of a system with p&r should improve slightly faster than a system without p&r. We have 2 pieces of evidences that this is also true in australia - a) the 5 year rolling average of fa cup goal differences b) the elo of the national team - allowing for a 5 year delay between the nsl improving and the elo of the national team Australia has a long plateau followed but a steady rise between 82 and 98 followed by a plateau for 26 years. A lot of noise of course in all three regions. However, for all the flaws with the nsl, I do think having the half hearted p&r from its inception to ~93 made a big difference
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Excellent post, Grazor.

Thanks for taking the time to compile it.
 
LFC said:
Its quite ironic being an ol bloke so many ol ways of life have changed, retail store hours, public hols everything is open where once not, we keep being told don't chanmge your left behind and I agree.
Whereas our game (put aside APL) not much has changed TBH, infact worse due "growth" not being able to service it properly and the lack of direction.
The usual 2 main codes rule the roost even though their game has changed so much, their leagues below have gone backwards but they have copious amounts of $'s backing their top flights, we sweet FA.
P/R, oh no don't talk about it nor bring it up, its costs too much, it won't work, one State has too much input compared to another, those dam east coasters ie NSW and Vic.
Nothing can ever move ahead for the resistance is never ending.
Its bleeting obvious P/R stimulates everything from desire, winning, avoiding relegation, the comps top to bottom ladder makes every game "count".
Yes C O the bonus is the sideline viewers entertainment and that spreads news/word of mouth.
Click to expand...
Pity to hear here that Kyle Patterson disagrees; o-ye-of-little-faith and all that😔:

 
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www.espn.com.au

Everything you need to know about the Australian Championship

What is the Australian Championship? When will it be played? Who will broadcast it? ESPN has all you need to know about Football Australia's national second tier competition.
www.espn.com.au www.espn.com.au

We talk about Japan being the benchmark in the region. And if you look at the process that Japan has gone through in terms of its evolution; in the 90s they were a one-tier football system with approximately 16 clubs. Today, they have three tiers, and they have about 56 professional clubs. So they have continued to evolve. And that's exactly what we are trying to do, and that's the purpose of why we've set up the second tier."

How long before we can finally shut down threads like this? what is the prediction? 3 years, 5 years or decades?
 
Can't say how many professional clubs we'll have, but I think we hit that 2034-35 season with a connected pyramid, if not before. Put it this way, within this decade the Championship will definitely be linked to NPL, and the cries for A-League pro/rel will only get louder from here. They would have run out of excuses by 2034, lock it in.
 
HappyGuus said:
Can't say how many professional clubs we'll have, but I think we hit that 2034-35 season with a connected pyramid, if not before. Put it this way, within this decade the Championship will definitely be linked to NPL, and the cries for A-League pro/rel will only get louder from here. They would have run out of excuses by 2034, lock it in.
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Mate I tell you what, this seems to be a question the Green and Gold Podcast team can help with ... It would be absolutely fantastic (and Im sure Im not the only one keen to hear this) if they could get 1 or 2 Aleague board members on board and ask them their thoughts on both the Championship and promotion/relegation.

I just want one single, simple, yes or no question asked and answered.

"If/When the Australian Championship is fully fleshed out, is 14-16 teams with pro/rel to NPL, has an average crowd attendance of 3K-5K paying fans through the doors and a fully paid playing roster for all club ...... will you push your franchise to vote to allow promotion and relegation between the two leagues?"

I know what I think they will say (well not directly but with many umms and ahhhs and roundabout excuses)
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Mate I tell you what, this seems to be a question the Green and Gold Podcast team can help with ... It would be absolutely fantastic (and Im sure Im not the only one keen to hear this) if they could get 1 or 2 Aleague board members on board and ask them their thoughts on both the Championship and promotion/relegation.

I just want one single, simple, yes or no question asked and answered.

"If/When the Australian Championship is fully fleshed out, is 14-16 teams with pro/rel to NPL, has an average crowd attendance of 3K-5K paying fans through the doors and a fully paid playing roster for all club ...... will you push your franchise to vote to allow promotion and relegation between the two leagues?"

I know what I think they will say (well not directly but with many umms and ahhhs and roundabout excuses)
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Don't stop until we get answers 🤣

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Monoethnic Social Club said:
Mate I tell you what, this seems to be a question the Green and Gold Podcast team can help with ... It would be absolutely fantastic (and Im sure Im not the only one keen to hear this) if they could get 1 or 2 Aleague board members on board and ask them their thoughts on both the Championship and promotion/relegation.

I just want one single, simple, yes or no question asked and answered.

"If/When the Australian Championship is fully fleshed out, is 14-16 teams with pro/rel to NPL, has an average crowd attendance of 3K-5K paying fans through the doors and a fully paid playing roster for all club ...... will you push your franchise to vote to allow promotion and relegation between the two leagues?"

I know what I think they will say (well not directly but with many umms and ahhhs and roundabout excuses)
Click to expand...
If anyone has connections we would love an interview with someone from an a league board
 
The biggest issue with P&R is Australia's sheer large geographical size and the limited population and the fact is Australia as a country don't really support second tiers in any sports. Only have to look at the big 3 state leagues in Aussie Rules and the Queensland Cup in rugby league that attendances in those competitions are abysmal.

How can a third string sport that can barely support its main league then turn around and say P&R would work in the country.

It won't, clubs are barely staying afloat as is.

Plus there's the main issue who's going to fund it and who's going to watch on tv, most of the various club's minimal fanbases will most likely be at the ground.

The other issue is for eg if a Perth Glory or Adelaide United got relegated it would leave an entire state without a top flight team.
 
Sharkman84 said:
The biggest issue with P&R is Australia's sheer large geographical size and the limited population and the fact is Australia as a country don't really support second tiers in any sports. Only have to look at the big 3 state leagues in Aussie Rules and the Queensland Cup in rugby league that attendances in those competitions are abysmal.

How can a third string sport that can barely support its main league then turn around and say P&R would work in the country.

It won't, clubs are barely staying afloat as is.

Plus there's the main issue who's going to fund it and who's going to watch on tv, most of the various club's minimal fanbases will most likely be at the ground.

The other issue is for eg if a Perth Glory or Adelaide United got relegated it would leave an entire state without a top flight team.
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I think its unfair to compare the likes of Footy, Rugby and Cricket 2nd divisions to Football 2nd division. Yes with the Championship its looks similar to VFL's. But I am unaware if AFL has a history of relegation, I don't think relegation and promotion is as baked into the system of AFL/NRL/BBL like it is with every other football league in the world. I understand we don't have a culture of it (fair weather support lol) but I think that was more of an issue with how the game (football) has been set up.
 
Sharkman84 said:
The biggest issue with P&R is Australia's sheer large geographical size and the limited population and the fact is Australia as a country don't really support second tiers in any sports. Only have to look at the big 3 state leagues in Aussie Rules and the Queensland Cup in rugby league that attendances in those competitions are abysmal.
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So we shouldnt try it and just leave things as is??? Convenient for the franchises!

Sharkman84 said:
How can a third string sport that can barely support its main league then turn around and say P&R would work in the country.

It won't, clubs are barely staying afloat as is.
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Then fold them and start from scratch open it up fully and let the fittest survive!

Sharkman84 said:
The otherissue is for eg if a Perth Glory or Adelaide United got relegated it would leave an entire state without a top flight team.
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Then turn it into a state of origin and be done!
 
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