Expansion Thread

[zimbos05]

I think another team in Brisbane would be good. But it would have to be sustainable, not so much in monetary terms but from a football culture perspective. The stadium issues are well documented. Playing out of the cavernous Suncorp isn't particularly appealing for people who like the normal football-like atmosphere you get in smaller grounds around Australia.

There's a growing younger demographic in SE Queensland who might be looking at following the game actively. I'm sure if there was a club offering a proper football culture environment they could be snared, so to speak...

I remember a really vibrant fan group called the Northern Element who followed the Queensland Roar team but they're long gone from the game. These kind of active fan groups are what makes football special. But they've never been overly embraced by the current A League club in Brisbane.

I like the idea in theory, but I don't think a 2nd club in Brisbane is sustainable. There are just not enough venues and not enough funds to go around to sustain it. What we really need is for the Roar to come under proper ownership and for that to be fixed first before we can look at a 2nd team.

The other issue with active fan groups is that they have a bad reputation in Aus. As soon as we get groups that are somewhat vocal, it gets shut down. There is zero tolerance for a European like football culture.

 

[Ange's high line]

I like the idea in theory, but I don't think a 2nd club in Brisbane is sustainable. There are just not enough venues and not enough funds to go around to sustain it. What we really need is for the Roar to come under proper ownership and for that to be fixed first before we can look at a 2nd team.

The other issue with active fan groups is that they have a bad reputation in Aus. As soon as we get groups that are somewhat vocal, it gets shut down. There is zero tolerance for a European like football culture.

North ipswich reserve supposed to be reconstructed next year. New team out of that area.

 

[JS96]

I think it will be more "franchisie" if they call themselves the Fremantle Seamen...

Apparently Freo Dockers were supposed to be called the WA Anchors.

 

[Volrath2002]

Are they actually doing that to the pool?

I do know they’ve started promoting upgrades to AIS area as the “Bruce Health, Sports and Education Precinct”, so expecting the stadium to finally be done, possible work to AIS Arena, plus hospital work and possible CIT redevelopment alongside anything planned at UC.

So the upgrade to the AIS Arena has been completed. But yeah the rest of the AIS upgrade is still in early planning. If Barr gets his way the stadium will be apart of all that.

As far as the pool site, a 10k indoor arena is what Barr has promoted for the site. It will form part of the new Convention Centre. I remember reading an article that said it could become a future home for an NBL team (come on it will be called the Cannons) and Capitals. The ACT Government said it will be exploring a new site within Commonwealth Park for a new aquatic centre. I think it is dubious that we will see that unless they decide to devote space in the new West Basin for it.

 

[LFC]

I like the idea in theory, but I don't think a 2nd club in Brisbane is sustainable. There are just not enough venues and not enough funds to go around to sustain it. What we really need is for the Roar to come under proper ownership and for that to be fixed first before we can look at a 2nd team.

The other issue with active fan groups is that they have a bad reputation in Aus. As soon as we get groups that are somewhat vocal, it gets shut down. There is zero tolerance for a European like football culture.

yer but zimbos what of a NPL club stepping up ? be it Bris metro or GC area ?

I agree that the APL mob up there need improve/or change ownership in the hope to recover alot of lost ground but this could years off yet.

Therefore is their any hope something developing beneath in the near future ? can it happen if it weren't for the current Fed clusterfuck.

 

[Vieri]

The thing is, I can't see any expansion happening before the National Semi Pro Champions League.

Not even an announcement I don't think.

 

[zimbos05]

yer but zimbos what of a NPL club stepping up ? be it Bris metro or GC area ?

I agree that the APL mob up there need improve/or change ownership in the hope to recover alot of lost ground but this could years off yet.

Therefore is their any hope something developing beneath in the near future ? can it happen if it weren't for the current Fed clusterfuck.

I don't think you'd get much buy in. NPL clubs already have their fan base. They are not going to draw too much more or steal away Roar fans if the Roar stays.

On top of that, we don't have that much talent that we can spare players across the clubs. Too many clubs would dilute the talent we have.

What Brisbane really needs is a strong A-league club to set the tone. Until we can get that, its pointless talking about expansion here.

 

[nm.apia21]

As far as the pool site, a 10k indoor arena is what Barr has promoted for the site. It will form part of the new Convention Centre. I remember reading an article that said it could become a future home for an NBL team (come on it will be called the Cannons) and Capitals. The ACT Government said it will be exploring a new site within Commonwealth Park for a new aquatic centre. I think it is dubious that we will see that unless they decide to devote space in the new West Basin for it.

I thought the current push was the for the pool site to be turned into a new stadium or has that all been shut down after the election

 

[LFC]

I don't think you'd get much buy in. NPL clubs already have their fan base. They are not going to draw too much more or steal away Roar fans if the Roar stays.

On top of that, we don't have that much talent that we can spare players across the clubs. Too many clubs would dilute the talent we have.

What Brisbane really needs is a strong A-league club to set the tone. Until we can get that, its pointless talking about expansion here.

yes understand your points.
BR is a major issue there (owners) and I wouldn't expect those fans in mass move anywhere actually for a good % never had any interest in NPL in the first place I suspect but waiting for BR, rebuild/recover play football let alone treat their supporter base better for those who walked could be how long ?????? 2/3/4yrs.

The game overall can't wait forever espcially below - this 2nd level comp/Cup series to start end of next season really needs to haul in a Bris Club.

There is NPL supporters nonetheless, Briz Olympic LionsFC did ok in the ACup.

 

[zimbos05]

yes understand your points.
BR is a major issue there (owners) and I wouldn't expect those fans in mass move anywhere actually for a good % never had any interest in NPL in the first place I suspect but waiting for BR, rebuild/recover play football let alone treat their supporter base better for those who walked could be how long ?????? 2/3/4yrs.

The game overall can't wait forever espcially below - this 2nd level comp/Cup series to start end of next season really needs to haul in a Bris Club.

There is NPL supporters nonetheless, Briz Olympic LionsFC did ok in the ACup.

The FA has just been neglectful. They have continued to just try and only focus on the "good" stories or think they can just continue to coattail off of the Socceroos or Matildas.

Remember the interest surge after 06. Same thing happened with the Women's league after the WC last year. Once those died off, there was no interest. It's why Tony, and Arnie lasted as long as they did. The FA just keeps hoping they can get by on feel good vibes.

If we keep adding in teams, it makes it seem like things are great. The reality is that we need strong teams in all the major centres. It's how you develop and grow the game. I'm obviously a bit more biased to the Roar, but if this was in England, the Roar is the equivalent of being EPL champions to suddenly in League 1.

 

[LFC]

yep the FA past to present ride on the back of the Roos/Tildas no doubt about that and as mentioned the only noise you hear from them is pre and post tournaments guilty as !

Hence imo the neccessity of someone getting the bit between the teeth and help direct expanding below for we keep staying in the same hole !
Setting sound foundations is the recipe of developing and growing but its like we are in a time warp, lack of belief and scares.
Like we're being kept in a mental institution (no disrespect to those) against our wish's.

haha from champs demoted to L1, I reckon L2 but thats what is needed the other shot to develop/grow is P/R - that would spike the whole game up from business perspective to revenue imo.

 

[Volrath2002]

I thought the current push was the for the pool site to be turned into a new stadium or has that all been shut down after the election

the ACT Government shifted away from that option well before the ACT elections. As soon as there was money available for the upgrade of the AIS, it shifted the stadium plans back to Bruce. Instead the Government proposed the site for the new indoor venue that would be suitable for a variety of purposes including sports and music events but mainly conventions.

Funding boost for new Canberra Convention and Entertainment Centre

Funding boost for new Canberra Convention and Entertainment Centre

www.act.gov.au

At the election the Government had their new stadium at Bruce plan, the Greens had their upgrade of the current stadium plan and the Libs had their new stadium at west basin by the lake plan.

I would always advocate for a new stadium in the city, but at least along the light rail line. The Civic pool site seems to be out of the question now for a new stadium with the ACT Government returned to power. They say the site is too small for a 30k stadium. David Pocock says otherwise and when the Government raised one of the constraints being Parkes Way, An innovate 'inverted bowl' design was put forward as an option to overcome the site constraints.

Inverted Bowl | ROSSETTI

www.rossetti.com

 

[erogenouszone]

'Sokkah' in this country needs the threat of another pro competition to smarten the Apl right up. To hasten things because the game is in a coma at the minute.
Let's face it the oldest teams are not part of Apl

why do you think they've all been delaying/suppressing the the NSD & PR for the past 10 years?

 

[nm.apia21]

Canberra

the ACT Government shifted away from that option well before the ACT elections. As soon as there was money available for the upgrade of the AIS, it shifted the stadium plans back to Bruce. Instead the Government proposed the site for the new indoor venue that would be suitable for a variety of purposes including sports and music events but mainly conventions.

Funding boost for new Canberra Convention and Entertainment Centre

Funding boost for new Canberra Convention and Entertainment Centre

www.act.gov.au

At the election the Government had their new stadium at Bruce plan, the Greens had their upgrade of the current stadium plan and the Libs had their new stadium at west basin by the lake plan.

I would always advocate for a new stadium in the city, but at least along the light rail line. The Civic pool site seems to be out of the question now for a new stadium with the ACT Government returned to power. They say the site is too small for a 30k stadium. David Pocock says otherwise and when the Government raised one of the constraints being Parkes Way, An innovate 'inverted bowl' design was put forward as an option to overcome the site constraints.

Inverted Bowl | ROSSETTI

www.rossetti.com

Canberra gov is so useless, would've cost around 600 million for a stadium five years ago, now its up to 2 billion. Barr is a joke

 

[NicCarBel]

I thought the current push was the for the pool site to be turned into a new stadium or has that all been shut down after the election

That was shut down many many moons ago. The next proposed site floated pre-election was where the government recently reclaimed some land on a car park right next to the main bridge from City to Parliament House

 

[zimbos05]

yep the FA past to present ride on the back of the Roos/Tildas no doubt about that and as mentioned the only noise you hear from them is pre and post tournaments guilty as !

Hence imo the neccessity of someone getting the bit between the teeth and help direct expanding below for we keep staying in the same hole !
Setting sound foundations is the recipe of developing and growing but its like we are in a time warp, lack of belief and scares.
Like we're being kept in a mental institution (no disrespect to those) against our wish's.

haha from champs demoted to L1, I reckon L2 but thats what is needed the other shot to develop/grow is P/R - that would spike the whole game up from business perspective to revenue imo.

My main concern is that the FA will just expand but to what benefit. When you start to disperse what little talent we have, we end up in situations where teams are woefully OP compared to others. Promotion and Relegation is of no benefit to potential owners of Aus teams. They would not be earning the money in a second division as they would in the A-league. There is no ROI for any potential owners.

We need to sure up our current league to ensure it is competitive enough before we can consider adding in P/R.

 

[someguyjc]

My main concern is that the FA will just expand but to what benefit. When you start to disperse what little talent we have, we end up in situations where teams are woefully OP compared to others. Promotion and Relegation is of no benefit to potential owners of Aus teams. They would not be earning the money in a second division as they would in the A-league. There is no ROI for any potential owners.

We need to sure up our current league to ensure it is competitive enough before we can consider adding in P/R.

Not up to the FA to expand, it's up to the APL.
Little talent? Football is the highest participated sport in the country and by a considerable margin. There is no talent shortage in this country but there is a massive shortage of opportunities.
This whole "wait til things are stable" idea is utter nonsense. Things will never be stable. They never have and never will. You may have some clubs doing well and others not so much. It's just the way it is. In my opinion the A-League has basically settled to where it should be given it's current format. We may see a slightly better season here and there and a slightly worse season here and there but the peaks of the past are no longer obtainable. The shine has worn off and no amount of polishing is going to fix that.
The idea of each capital city having a strong A-League team, is just not an idea based in reality. It should be the best clubs at the top regardless of where they are located.
Things don't improve without risk or reward. Right now we have neither.

 

[LFC]

Not up to the FA to expand, it's up to the APL.
Little talent? Football is the highest participated sport in the country and by a considerable margin. There is no talent shortage in this country but there is a massive shortage of opportunities.
This whole "wait til things are stable" idea is utter nonsense. Things will never be stable. They never have and never will. You may have some clubs doing well and others not so much. It's just the way it is. In my opinion the A-League has basically settled to where it should be given it's current format. We may see a slightly better season here and there and a slightly worse season here and there but the peaks of the past are no longer obtainable. The shine has worn off and no amount of polishing is going to fix that.
The idea of each capital city having a strong A-League team, is just not an idea based in reality. It should be the best clubs at the top regardless of where they are located.
Things don't improve without risk or reward. Right now we have neither.

correct !
zimbos - your looking at the game through APL eyes and BR.
As soon as I saw you quoted ROI I'm not talking about APL, for me let them their own course good luck to it I'm more concerned beneath needs the massive shot in the arm the game needs, its in limbo !
We got bucket loads of talent beneath and as someguyfc says, shortage of opportunities !!!!
We need this 2nd level be it full pro or semi with better presentation, more professional, broadcasting, marketing, TD's looked after and then implement P/R down not going into APL.
Let this develop/grow and see what becomes later re APL if and when they get their shit together.
Heck it may NEVER see a future alliance/marriage in any case but we need to improve and get with the times for the massive participation below.

 

[patjennings]

My main concern is that the FA will just expand but to what benefit. When you start to disperse what little talent we have, we end up in situations where teams are woefully OP compared to others. Promotion and Relegation is of no benefit to potential owners of Aus teams. They would not be earning the money in a second division as they would in the A-league. There is no ROI for any potential owners.

We need to sure up our current league to ensure it is competitive enough before we can consider adding in P/R.

TBH the only way that the AL teams survive is with rich benefactors. NPL clubs survive on social clubs. Stadium costs and associated match day costs are killing the AL teams and the revenue unless there is a huge crowd goes nowhere near covering those costs. Smaller stadiums, owned and operated by the clubs with clubs attached is the only way to make them sustainable.

Either that - or if Syd FC, WSW and City with their rich owners threatened to build their own the Stadiums may be more reasonable.

 

[someguyjc]

TBH the only way that the AL teams survive is with rich benefactors. NPL clubs survive on social clubs. Stadium costs and associated match day costs are killing the AL teams and the revenue unless there is a huge crowd goes nowhere near covering those costs. Smaller stadiums, owned and operated by the clubs with clubs attached is the only way to make them sustainable.

Either that - or if Syd FC, WSW and City with their rich owners threatened to build their own the Stadiums may be more reasonable.

Even big crowds and memberships don't even cover costs most of the time. Sure they are good to have but If you look at the clubs that have had profitable years, a massive chunk of those profits is always attributable to getting big international transfer fees for players. I'm pretty sure MV got $1m+ for Rojas on three separate transfers.