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Expansion Thread

someguyjc said:
It doesn't automatically result in more international transfers, but it does create an environment in which 200+ more players are on professional contracts at a younger age. That means if/when they sign to an A-League club they are already acclimatised to life as a professional football player and should have better chances of actually getting minutes on the pitch. That gives a far better opportunity for players to get overseas sooner. Right now it's taking far too long for players to hit the type of form that opens up those doors overseas.
As for opportunities in the A-League, it's very difficult to call a bench spot an opportunity. I don't blame the AL clubs either, these young players aren't ready, so they end up spending 2-3 years on the bench. If however they were spending that couple of years actually on the pitch at an NST club they would have better chances slotting into a starting lineup of an AL club.
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This is not exactly how it works. It's not some perfect utopia where all of a sudden NSL clubs become professional. A lot of players get paid at NPL level and are on contracts. They train like they are a professional club and play that often. The sad reality is that the money does not justify them quitting their day jobs or their side hustles.

The money will not just magically appear. A lot of our A-league W players still have to work a 2nd job and this is the top tier of the Womens game. The moment you throw more cash into a 2nd Tier mens game you create a massive issue win equity and inequality.

Getting players overseas is due to a few factors. Development of talent, and the pathways for that talent. Closing the AIS was a massive mistake.
 
zimbos05 said:
This is not exactly how it works. It's not some perfect utopia where all of a sudden NSL clubs become professional. A lot of players get paid at NPL level and are on contracts. They train like they are a professional club and play that often. The sad reality is that the money does not justify them quitting their day jobs or their side hustles.

The money will not just magically appear. A lot of our A-league W players still have to work a 2nd job and this is the top tier of the Womens game. The moment you throw more cash into a 2nd Tier mens game you create a massive issue win equity and inequality.

Getting players overseas is due to a few factors. Development of talent, and the pathways for that talent. Closing the AIS was a massive mistake.
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I believe there are a sizable number of NPL players on contracts worth more than A League squaddies. There might be more than one reason they're not moving into the A League.
 
Muz said:
I believe there are a sizable number of NPL players on contracts worth more than A League squaddies. There might be more than one reason they're not moving into the A League.
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There's also been more than one false dawn.

Pezos, Bulloch, Saric, Aoyama just examples of players who've tried to step up but just couldn't for my club.
 
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Muz said:
I believe there are a sizable number of NPL players on contracts worth more than A League squaddies. There might be more than one reason they're not moving into the A League.
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There's definitely some on a decent pay, and the second point is one of the points I am making. Creating a 2nd comp won't automatically fix that issue. There is a dearth of talent to some degree. There are things that need fixing that just adding clubs and comps won't do, but might create some problems.
 
zimbos, starting up a 2nd comp obviously wouldn't fix everything but its a start point, you got to start somewhere mate.
New problems would occur as well, thats what happen when you start up a new business - no different to starting a new comp.
We keep sitting back from your pov nothing will ever happen.
I'd sooner put your neck out and fix/adjust as challenges come to hand for the following season and then more new ones arise again.
How you build a model, it takes time.
 
zimbos05 said:
There's definitely some on a decent pay, and the second point is one of the points I am making. Creating a 2nd comp won't automatically fix that issue. There is a dearth of talent to some degree. There are things that need fixing that just adding clubs and comps won't do, but might create some problems.
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Not automatically NO but hopefully it will over time.... At the moment msot clubs train 2-3 times a week either before work or afternoon.... Having a somewhat more professional national competition with full time staff incentivises clubs to demand their players train more and ultimately get paid more.... Over the years anyone with any connection to NPL would have seen fairly talented players (at least on par if not much better than Al league squaddies) content to play football as a "side hustle" A second national competition leads to more avenues for these players to take their football seriously ... never know what unpolished gems are out there unless you start digging.
 
zimbos05 said:
This is not exactly how it works. It's not some perfect utopia where all of a sudden NSL clubs become professional. A lot of players get paid at NPL level and are on contracts. They train like they are a professional club and play that often. The sad reality is that the money does not justify them quitting their day jobs or their side hustles.

The money will not just magically appear. A lot of our A-league W players still have to work a 2nd job and this is the top tier of the Womens game. The moment you throw more cash into a 2nd Tier mens game you create a massive issue win equity and inequality.

Getting players overseas is due to a few factors. Development of talent, and the pathways for that talent. Closing the AIS was a massive mistake.
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One of the key requirements of the proposed NST was for a full-time professional league both players and staff. Currently there are 8 clubs (
APIA Leichhardt FC, Avondale FC, Marconi Stallions FC, Preston Lions FC, South Melbourne FC, Sydney Olympic FC, Sydney United 58 FC, Wollongong Wolves FC) that have all signed up (and paid up) for a fully professional home & away league. That's 160+ professional contracts sitting in waiting. Then there are another 2-4 clubs that have been reported to be very close to getting across the line. The money is already there. No need for magic. The clubs are ready and waiting.
NPL players are not training like professional A-League players. It's a very different lifestyle. For the A-League players, it is their full time job. They train and prepare during the day then go home like the rest of us. NPL players train after a full day of work at their day job. It's a massive difference, especially mentally. I don't know if you have ever worked two jobs, but I can tell you I have and not only is it exhausting it can be absolutely soul crushing a lot of the time.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Not automatically NO but hopefully it will over time.... At the moment msot clubs train 2-3 times a week either before work or afternoon.... Having a somewhat more professional national competition with full time staff incentivises clubs to demand their players train more and ultimately get paid more.... Over the years anyone with any connection to NPL would have seen fairly talented players (at least on par if not much better than Al league squaddies) content to play football as a "side hustle" A second national competition leads to more avenues for these players to take their football seriously ... never know what unpolished gems are out there unless you start digging.
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The gems are there no doubt about it but dejected ! for there is only so many spots at the top, many could have should have if there was more opportunities to move UP and prosper.
The way we currently are at Club/NPL levels is the same its been for years and years - something HAS got to GIVE.

Correct someguyfc, besides there was talk of even allowing Clubs to still be semi pro if needed to be.
Get the new 2nd teir comp or should I say Cup comp started following year hopefully H/A, sponsers coming in, media coverage that has been mentioned is signed up - following year possibly next tier below still semi pro but with alot more to play for and improved support structures.

I really can't see why this can't be put into plan.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Not automatically NO but hopefully it will over time.... At the moment msot clubs train 2-3 times a week either before work or afternoon.... Having a somewhat more professional national competition with full time staff incentivises clubs to demand their players train more and ultimately get paid more.... Over the years anyone with any connection to NPL would have seen fairly talented players (at least on par if not much better than Al league squaddies) content to play football as a "side hustle" A second national competition leads to more avenues for these players to take their football seriously ... never know what unpolished gems are out there unless you start digging.
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You are forcing players to make decisions, especially in a cost of living crisis. Many would choose the day job over the football contract that can't support a family. Training more does not equal to more pay. You need to get the money from somewhere. Without a flurry of sponsors to the game, that money will come from the paying fans and players at the lower level.

I agree with the point of a 2nd comp can offer a bit more of a pathway, but we shouldn't need a 2nd comp to do that. We have plenty of comps just below the A-league level and if we can't identify talent or generate talent at that level, then there are serious issues to address that a 2nd comp won't fix.


LFC said:
The gems are there no doubt about it but dejected ! for there is only so many spots at the top, many could have should have if there was more opportunities to move UP and prosper.
The way we currently are at Club/NPL levels is the same its been for years and years - something HAS got to GIVE.

Correct someguyfc, besides there was talk of even allowing Clubs to still be semi pro if needed to be.
Get the new 2nd teir comp or should I say Cup comp started following year hopefully H/A, sponsers coming in, media coverage that has been mentioned is signed up - following year possibly next tier below still semi pro but with alot more to play for and improved support structures.

I really can't see why this can't be put into plan.
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Media coverage is behind a paywall. People are not paying if the product is not great. The clubs that would come into the 2nd tier already have their fan bases. They are not just going to grow a fan base that is bigger all of a sudden. I agree that something has to give, but personally I don't think it's a 2nd tier comp.
 
zimbos05 said:
You are forcing players to make decisions, especially in a cost of living crisis. Many would choose the day job over the football contract that can't support a family. Training more does not equal to more pay. You need to get the money from somewhere. Without a flurry of sponsors to the game, that money will come from the paying fans and players at the lower level.
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Isn't that what we want though? Players training full time? Its not going to happen when they have they choice of lucrative contracts in NPL and being able to sustain a fulfilling full time career for when they retire...

zimbos05 said:
I agree with the point of a 2nd comp can offer a bit more of a pathway, but we shouldn't need a 2nd comp to do that. We have plenty of comps just below the A-league level and if we can't identify talent or generate talent at that level, then there are serious issues to address that a 2nd comp won't fix.

But the POINT of a NST is to amalgamate ALL the best talent below the Aleague into 14-16 (constantly rotating) clubs .. at the moment we have little shining "stars" scattered all over the country... It's already happeing now with NST clubs drawing the attention of the cream of the NPL crop...


Media coverage is behind a paywall. People are not paying if the product is not great. The clubs that would come into the 2nd tier already have their fan bases. They are not just going to grow a fan base that is bigger all of a sudden. I agree that something has to give, but personally I don't think it's a 2nd tier comp.
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Media coverage of the Aleague is behind a paywall... People pay for coverage of their club regardless of how great the football on the park is... AS for these exisiting clubs growing their fanbases, you dont think someone like Avondale (as an example) with 50 supporters to their name now wont draw a bigger crowd if they are competing with national clubs week in week out?
 
zimbos05 said:
You are forcing players to make decisions, especially in a cost of living crisis. Many would choose the day job over the football contract that can't support a family. Training more does not equal to more pay. You need to get the money from somewhere. Without a flurry of sponsors to the game, that money will come from the paying fans and players at the lower level.
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Nobody is forcing players to make decisions. Obviously a football career is a bit of a luxury career choice for many. If you have a couple of kids to feed, a career in football is a really dumb choice, don't pursue a career in football. However in relation to an NST, we are talking about young people. Typically these would be people that still live with Mum &/or Dad, have a support structure behind them and don't have any dependents. It's a very similar scenario to young people learning a trade through an apprenticeship. It's simply not a viable option unless you have that extra support. However if a few hundred extra doors could be opened for those young people that do have that support structure then it's absolutely going to be beneficial.
 
my (very limited) understanding is that the top end NPL contracts are worth similar to that of the A-League contracts that players are being offered and they chose the NPL due to more flexibility. Would love the NST to be able to bridge the gap between flexibility and professionalism in this country but thats down to administrators that have let us down consistently.
 
I think we can go on about this conversation for a long time. I don't disagree with a lot of the points many of you are making. Personally, I think there are far bigger issues that need to be resolved before we get a 2nd tier comp. From my working with FQ and NPL clubs, I have seen things that tell me any rapid expansion without sorting other issues will not benefit the game one bit.
 
Ange's high line said:
The A League Must get to 16 teams, promotion from NST as part of it, with 30 regular rounds or the comp stays broken, as incomplete.
Need this to work, to then work on positioning themselves to start pro/rel. That's where we should be.
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It's been notable to me watching players improve when they get a longer season in.
 
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