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Expansion Thread

zimbos05 said:
I think we can go on about this conversation for a long time. I don't disagree with a lot of the points many of you are making. Personally, I think there are far bigger issues that need to be resolved before we get a 2nd tier comp. From my working with FQ and NPL clubs, I have seen things that tell me any rapid expansion without sorting other issues will not benefit the game one bit.
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So, because FQ is a steaming pile, we should hold back APIA Leichhardt FC, Avondale FC, Marconi Stallions FC, Preston Lions FC, South Melbourne FC, Sydney Olympic FC, Sydney United 58 FC, Wollongong Wolves FC and the 2-4 other clubs that are ready to move up. This idea that all states should be represented is not productive at all. It's a nice-to-have but if we are waiting on FQ to get their shit together we will be waiting a very long time.
 
someguyjc said:
So, because FQ is a steaming pile, we should hold back APIA Leichhardt FC, Avondale FC, Marconi Stallions FC, Preston Lions FC, South Melbourne FC, Sydney Olympic FC, Sydney United 58 FC, Wollongong Wolves FC and the 2-4 other clubs that are ready to move up. This idea that all states should be represented is not productive at all. It's a nice-to-have but if we are waiting on FQ to get their shit together we will be waiting a very long time.
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I somewhat understand having 'every' state / territory represented, its a nice Idea and all. But I think some people tend to forget that most professional football leagues have more than 2-3 clubs in that league based out of the same major city (shock horror). This idea of curating the league based off geographical catchment is so brain dead from a footballing perspective (but if you're a business guy its great...).
 
someguyjc said:
So, because FQ is a steaming pile, we should hold back APIA Leichhardt FC, Avondale FC, Marconi Stallions FC, Preston Lions FC, South Melbourne FC, Sydney Olympic FC, Sydney United 58 FC, Wollongong Wolves FC and the 2-4 other clubs that are ready to move up. This idea that all states should be represented is not productive at all. It's a nice-to-have but if we are waiting on FQ to get their shit together we will be waiting a very long time.
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x2. Yes, on paper it’s a nice utopian ideal but in a country of 🇦🇺‘s size *and* population-density it’s never going to be achieved to everyone’s satisfaction.

Besides, in all of world-⚽️ how many countries’ national leagues/top-flights have clubs from all over the place? For all intents&purposes, I’d say none; close to all of them are centred around the capital/major population-centres.

And to use examples from home, only a relative minority of ppl complain about the VIC & NSW-centricities of the AFL and NRL respectively as is, so this argument that Aussie national sporting leagues need to have a broad geographic-spread in order to be commercially-appealing/successful really doesn’t hold as much water as it’s made out to💡
 
someguyjc said:
So, because FQ is a steaming pile, we should hold back APIA Leichhardt FC, Avondale FC, Marconi Stallions FC, Preston Lions FC, South Melbourne FC, Sydney Olympic FC, Sydney United 58 FC, Wollongong Wolves FC and the 2-4 other clubs that are ready to move up. This idea that all states should be represented is not productive at all. It's a nice-to-have but if we are waiting on FQ to get their shit together we will be waiting a very long time.
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That's not what I said. FQ is also not the only state body that has issues.
 
zimbos05 said:
That's not what I said. FQ is also not the only state body that has issues.
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Absolutely and none of them should be holding back the progress of clubs in other states. Clubs like Sth Melbourne and Wollongong have been ready for a very long time now. The only thing holding them back is bureaucracy and lack of opportunity. To be honest, in QLD, it's getting to the point in which some sort of drastic industrial action might be be necessary to fix the issues. When you have a state fed actively and openly working against the clubs they are meant to represent, then something is very wrong. It's a massive shame as there are some fantastic QLD clubs that would make great additions to the NST.
 
zimbos05 said:
I think we can go on about this conversation for a long time. I don't disagree with a lot of the points many of you are making. Personally, I think there are far bigger issues that need to be resolved before we get a 2nd tier comp. From my working with FQ and NPL clubs, I have seen things that tell me any rapid expansion without sorting other issues will not benefit the game one bit.
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I agree with you... Expansion is an entertainment and economic consideration it has NOTHING to do with "the game" and its structure... Everything below the NST NEEDS to be aligned and many of the state fed differences put to bed
 
someguyjc said:
Absolutely and none of them should be holding back the progress of clubs in other states. Clubs like Sth Melbourne and Wollongong have been ready for a very long time now. The only thing holding them back is bureaucracy and lack of opportunity. To be honest, in QLD, it's getting to the point in which some sort of drastic industrial action might be be necessary to fix the issues. When you have a state fed actively and openly working against the clubs they are meant to represent, then something is very wrong. It's a massive shame as there are some fantastic QLD clubs that would make great additions to the NST.
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They have, but not all are. So how big is the 2nd comp? How many teams? What do we cap the A-league at as well? Do we add in teams for the sake of it to make the 2nd tier reasonable enough because some teams are ready and we are afraid to hold them back?

It is very much sad when you have state feds working against the benefit of the clubs. Let's now throw in more money to this equation. Do you think the terrible leadership is going to get fixed or will they entrench themselves because of the money floating around. We can't expect the structure to be successful if its foundations are shaky.
 
zimbos05 said:
They have, but not all are. So how big is the 2nd comp? How many teams? What do we cap the A-league at as well? Do we add in teams for the sake of it to make the 2nd tier reasonable enough because some teams are ready and we are afraid to hold them back?

It is very much sad when you have state feds working against the benefit of the clubs. Let's now throw in more money to this equation. Do you think the terrible leadership is going to get fixed or will they entrench themselves because of the money floating around. We can't expect the structure to be successful if its foundations are shaky.
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Current FA goal is for a 10-12 team NST. As it will be a national comp it will be owned and operated by FA. Teams are added based on the criteria set by FA. The state feds will not be involved in the NST. As for a cap on AL sides, that's a question for the APL.
 
someguyjc said:
Current FA goal is for a 10-12 team NST. As it will be a national comp it will be owned and operated by FA. Teams are added based on the criteria set by FA. The state feds will not be involved in the NST. As for a cap on AL sides, that's a question for the APL.
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Ok. So all sounds good in theory. Operated and owned by the FA has already created issues with state bodies.

Like i said, this conversation can go on and on, but the sad reality whether we like it or not is that Australian football has neglected its foundations for the best part of the last 10 years that to now try and build on that would be very shaky. At least this is my own view based on my experiences with football in this country over that time.

I don't see a NST fixing any issues, at least not any time soon. In fact, I have seen so much regression at the top level that further diluting the product will only make things worse. Let's fix the issues that are evidently present and use that to build on top of.
 
zimbos05 said:
Ok. So all sounds good in theory. Operated and owned by the FA has already created issues with state bodies.

Like i said, this conversation can go on and on, but the sad reality whether we like it or not is that Australian football has neglected its foundations for the best part of the last 10 years that to now try and build on that would be very shaky. At least this is my own view based on my experiences with football in this country over that time.

I don't see a NST fixing any issues, at least not any time soon. In fact, I have seen so much regression at the top level that further diluting the product will only make things worse. Let's fix the issues that are evidently present and use that to build on top of.
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But haven’t we been trying to fix the issues for the last twenty years?
 
grazorblade said:
what changes are needed to fix player pathways?
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There is no clear or structured process behind player pathways. In QLD for example, if you wan to progress, it seems that you need to go from your NPL club to the QAS or the Roar teams. Players are also shifted around the age groups without any clear thought or rhyme. It's all just a little chaotic. I get that you need the QAS, but the QAS teams are not serving to provide the next level, they are competing against the other clubs, so players feel they can't progress or develop from their own club.
 
zimbos05 said:
There is no clear or structured process behind player pathways. In QLD for example, if you wan to progress, it seems that you need to go from your NPL club to the QAS or the Roar teams. Players are also shifted around the age groups without any clear thought or rhyme. It's all just a little chaotic. I get that you need the QAS, but the QAS teams are not serving to provide the next level, they are competing against the other clubs, so players feel they can't progress or develop from their own club.
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Ok that's the problem, but I'm curious what the solution is in terms of specific steps the governing bodies can make. If I put you in charge of all governing bodies in Australia what specific steps are you making to make pathways more structured
 
grazorblade said:
Ok that's the problem, but I'm curious what the solution is in terms of specific steps the governing bodies can make. If I put you in charge of all governing bodies in Australia what specific steps are you making to make pathways more structured
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I don't know each state body in detail, so I can't answer that. With FQ, I would be setting up a school league. I would require all coaches within these leagues to have a minimum C licence and facilitate coaches obtaining these. I would then utilise the QAS not as a competition to other teams, but as a consolidation of other teams. The QAS would essentially serve to facilitate the teams, not take away from them. Stronger squads across a competition means more competitive games regularly.

There are plenty more things required, but this would be a start.
 
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