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Expansion Thread

Rather see a 3rd New Zealand team in Christchurch, they have a better stadium then Sth Melb Criminals, better players and would get way better crowds being the only pro club in all of NZ South island.
Thats fascinating... I wish you well in your expansion bid.
 
I don't know each state body in detail, so I can't answer that. With FQ, I would be setting up a school league. I would require all coaches within these leagues to have a minimum C licence and facilitate coaches obtaining these. I would then utilise the QAS not as a competition to other teams, but as a consolidation of other teams. The QAS would essentially serve to facilitate the teams, not take away from them. Stronger squads across a competition means more competitive games regularly.

There are plenty more things required, but this would be a start.
Not trying to be contrary but what happens to all these players once they are too old for the school league? I agree with you 100% that pathways are broken and also to some degree that "Player pathways. Coach development. Nepotism. Infrastructure. Access to opportunity." are fundamental problems that need to be tackled and overcome.... But.... one of the ways that would help towards that is clearing up the bottleneck that occurs once these players reach a certain age and they have no other options apart from:
- sit on the bench and hope for gametime in one of 11 Australian clubs
- play NPL and work a primary job --
- go overseas and try your luck somewhere, anywhere
- stop playing alltogether.
 
I don't know each state body in detail, so I can't answer that. With FQ, I would be setting up a school league. I would require all coaches within these leagues to have a minimum C licence and facilitate coaches obtaining these. I would then utilise the QAS not as a competition to other teams, but as a consolidation of other teams. The QAS would essentially serve to facilitate the teams, not take away from them. Stronger squads across a competition means more competitive games regularly.

There are plenty more things required, but this would be a start.
State body's don't vary that much that I'm led to believe without looking into it, all have pretty similar league/systems down to grass roots you'd think.
NPL again each State have their own minor diffs but nothing out of the ordinary but seems FQ being 1 of the major east coast is the outlier the way that guy has been un co operative.
Absolutely agree coaching needs alot more support - $'s to encourage more get into it and taking up a C license a given.
Costs absorbed - plus intended new coachs should sign a 2 yr min agreement.
Where does QAS fit in though ? like an old AIS ?
Why not have the eco system from grass roots SAP to NPL1 or NST filter the players through ?
 
State body's don't vary that much that I'm led to believe without looking into it, all have pretty similar league/systems down to grass roots you'd think.
NPL again each State have their own minor diffs but nothing out of the ordinary but seems FQ being 1 of the major east coast is the outlier the way that guy has been un co operative.
Absolutely agree coaching needs alot more support - $'s to encourage more get into it and taking up a C license a given.
Costs absorbed - plus intended new coachs should sign a 2 yr min agreement.
Where does QAS fit in though ? like an old AIS ?
Why not have the eco system from grass roots SAP to NPL1 or NST filter the players through ?
Id also love to see more money going into refereeing courses, it had gotten better in nplvic since early npl days (circa 2014 to pre covid) but it has dropped off a bit last two seasons. Whats the refereeing like in the other state comps?
 
Id also love to see more money going into refereeing courses, it had gotten better in nplvic since early npl days (circa 2014 to pre covid) but it has dropped off a bit last two seasons. Whats the refereeing like in the other state comps?
I dont think other state federations have a CEO who is married to a club's president.... do they? :cool:
 
Id also love to see more money going into refereeing courses, it had gotten better in nplvic since early npl days (circa 2014 to pre covid) but it has dropped off a bit last two seasons. Whats the refereeing like in the other state comps?

I have a couple of ex team mates still reffing Prem1/O35/45's etc depending where they are assigned.
All for the passion, around $60/70/80/90 bucks depending age/experience don't know what AR's get.
Muz is a local ref be interesting what NNSW pay.

Coaching pay is too low I'm led to believe by some spoken with (talking NPL3 down/YL) , they are pulled pillar to post one guy was saying when your a young bloke, toss either being a student/or work and then get to trainings 2/3/4 nights then weekend games.

MSC is a new remake of Troy in the making :)
 

I have a couple of ex team mates still reffing Prem1/O35/45's etc depending where they are assigned.
All for the passion, around $60/70/80/90 bucks depending age/experience don't know what AR's get.
Muz is a local ref be interesting what NNSW pay.

Coaching pay is too low I'm led to believe by some spoken with (talking NPL3 down/YL) , they are pulled pillar to post one guy was saying when your a young bloke, toss either being a student/or work and then get to trainings 2/3/4 nights then weekend games.

MSC is a new remake of Troy in the making :)
Not sure about other feds, but Capital Football has a published doc on how much referees are paid per game:
 
Not trying to be contrary but what happens to all these players once they are too old for the school league? I agree with you 100% that pathways are broken and also to some degree that "Player pathways. Coach development. Nepotism. Infrastructure. Access to opportunity." are fundamental problems that need to be tackled and overcome.... But.... one of the ways that would help towards that is clearing up the bottleneck that occurs once these players reach a certain age and they have no other options apart from:
- sit on the bench and hope for gametime in one of 11 Australian clubs
- play NPL and work a primary job --
- go overseas and try your luck somewhere, anywhere
- stop playing alltogether.

If you create a 2nd tier comp you are not creating more clubs. The clubs are still the same, so those players after school are still going to the same clubs. It's just the main NPL sides that essentially become the 2nd tier side.
State body's don't vary that much that I'm led to believe without looking into it, all have pretty similar league/systems down to grass roots you'd think.
NPL again each State have their own minor diffs but nothing out of the ordinary but seems FQ being 1 of the major east coast is the outlier the way that guy has been un co operative.
Absolutely agree coaching needs alot more support - $'s to encourage more get into it and taking up a C license a given.
Costs absorbed - plus intended new coachs should sign a 2 yr min agreement.
Where does QAS fit in though ? like an old AIS ?
Why not have the eco system from grass roots SAP to NPL1 or NST filter the players through ?

QAS does not really work as an AIS. If anything it works as competition to the other clubs.
 
If you create a 2nd tier comp you are not creating more clubs. The clubs are still the same, so those players after school are still going to the same clubs. It's just the main NPL sides that essentially become the 2nd tier side.
Correct, but you are creating the opportunity for 200+ players to sign professional contracts and focus primarily on their football careers. At the same time 10-12 clubs are also being promoted into NPL to fill the void left by the departing NST clubs (and so on). That's a bunch more players competing at a slightly higher level. We don't need to create more clubs. The country is full of them. When it comes to player pathways one key area that is lacking is the opportunities for the absolute elite players in that 16-22 age group. This is when players are deciding whether they should pursue a football career or not. Adding a couple of new A-League franchises only gives "opportunity" to a dozen or so young players who will waste those valuable years missing out on actual competitive game minutes. An NST also provides an avenue for AL clubs to loan out young players to NST squads to actually get minutes.
 
The A League Must get to 16 teams, promotion from NST as part of it, with 30 regular rounds or the comp stays broken, as incomplete.
Need this to work, to then work on positioning themselves to start pro/rel. That's where we should be.

14 teams for mine.

Play everyone twice and then the finals series + Cup games. Thats still 30-35 games for a lot of clubs. A 30 game season + finals is too long + you will have to play a lot of mid-week games which clubs hate.

Bring in Canberra and the Sunshine Coast.

NST should have 14 teams also. Must have representation from Tasmania, SA and WA. Id limit it to three teams each from NSW and Vic considering already strong representation in the A-league

One thing i haven't taken into account is if Pro/rel does come around, how do the NZ clubs manage? They wont be relegated to an Australian Second division.
 
14 teams for mine.

Play everyone twice and then the finals series + Cup games. Thats still 30-35 games for a lot of clubs. A 30 game season + finals is too long + you will have to play a lot of mid-week games which clubs hate.

Bring in Canberra and the Sunshine Coast.

NST should have 14 teams also. Must have representation from Tasmania, SA and WA. Id limit it to three teams each from NSW and Vic considering already strong representation in the A-league

One thing i haven't taken into account is if Pro/rel does come around, how do the NZ clubs manage? They wont be relegated to an Australian Second division.
Could always be a MoU between NZF and APL/FA that if Wellington/Auckland are relegated from 2nd tier, they are to go back to the NZ pyramid.

Alternatively, these two clubs could be set up in NSW, NNSW or QLD (probably the 3 closest re: travel time for them) to just sit in their pyramid. Although, highly doubt that will work, as state NPL sides will never travel to NZ for a game (unless paid for by the federation)
 
14 teams for mine.

Play everyone twice and then the finals series + Cup games. Thats still 30-35 games for a lot of clubs. A 30 game season + finals is too long + you will have to play a lot of mid-week games which clubs hate.

Bring in Canberra and the Sunshine Coast.

NST should have 14 teams also. Must have representation from Tasmania, SA and WA. Id limit it to three teams each from NSW and Vic considering already strong representation in the A-league

One thing i haven't taken into account is if Pro/rel does come around, how do the NZ clubs manage? They wont be relegated to an Australian Second division.

Pretty good summary I can relate but I struggle to limit the 2 largest markets depending IF when other region as mentioned can happen and successful.
I suppose thats APL's side that I'm not overly fussed of but they do need their comp in order so as it can be absorb or come to an agreement in the years ahead re P/R NST.

Re NZ, I think thats the complication part of that franchise systems creates.
As someguyfc mentions, we got PLENTY of Clubs.
Yes some would never consider stepping up ala NST but plenty would in years ahead would.
Therefore imo its over for NZ Clubs.
They are not in our lwer levels, they are involved by license alone.
They will need to start buidling their own product back home in the end.
 
As someguyfc mentions, we got PLENTY of Clubs.
Just looking at the NST process there were 32 clubs formally express interest and 26 of those clubs were asked to submit proposals. Obviously the criteria was a bit steep for most, but it does demonstrate there are no shortage of clubs with the ambition and drive to move to the next level.
 
correct, stage by stage.
Main thng is getting this going, once it starts and we get 1 season over onto the next and next this will have a knock off effect.
I just can't see why not as along as the FA and Clubs keep their fingers on pulse and not over extend themselves.
This doesn't need shit and glitter - just provide a good 90min match experience, no frills, just organic Clubs trying looking to grow.
Meet criteria covered seating, food vendors, good ground annoucements, bring on the local footballers.
Like TD's scream out - lets play !
 
Pretty good summary I can relate but I struggle to limit the 2 largest markets depending IF when other region as mentioned can happen and successful.
I suppose thats APL's side that I'm not overly fussed of but they do need their comp in order so as it can be absorb or come to an agreement in the years ahead re P/R NST.

Re NZ, I think thats the complication part of that franchise systems creates.
As someguyfc mentions, we got PLENTY of Clubs.
Yes some would never consider stepping up ala NST but plenty would in years ahead would.
Therefore imo its over for NZ Clubs.
They are not in our lwer levels, they are involved by license alone.
They will need to start buidling their own product back home in the end.
It already exists, and even has a streaming deal with FIFA+ (probably not worth anything financially to be honest, but still)
Will be more lucrative for them anyways given the Club World Cup expansion.
 
Correct, but you are creating the opportunity for 200+ players to sign professional contracts and focus primarily on their football careers. At the same time 10-12 clubs are also being promoted into NPL to fill the void left by the departing NST clubs (and so on). That's a bunch more players competing at a slightly higher level. We don't need to create more clubs. The country is full of them. When it comes to player pathways one key area that is lacking is the opportunities for the absolute elite players in that 16-22 age group. This is when players are deciding whether they should pursue a football career or not. Adding a couple of new A-League franchises only gives "opportunity" to a dozen or so young players who will waste those valuable years missing out on actual competitive game minutes. An NST also provides an avenue for AL clubs to loan out young players to NST squads to actually get minutes.
perfect response... agree 100%
 
Just looking at the NST process there were 32 clubs formally express interest and 26 of those clubs were asked to submit proposals. Obviously the criteria was a bit steep for most, but it does demonstrate there are no shortage of clubs with the ambition and drive to move to the next level.
Many of the clubs (and lets not forget they each coughed up 5k I belevie to fund the financial modelling back then) went in to the process knowing they are years away from being ready... BUT STILL want the opportunity to compete ... if nothing else this should be the signal that there are many shoulders under this NST all pushing in the same direction.
 
Correct, but you are creating the opportunity for 200+ players to sign professional contracts and focus primarily on their football careers. At the same time 10-12 clubs are also being promoted into NPL to fill the void left by the departing NST clubs (and so on). That's a bunch more players competing at a slightly higher level. We don't need to create more clubs. The country is full of them. When it comes to player pathways one key area that is lacking is the opportunities for the absolute elite players in that 16-22 age group. This is when players are deciding whether they should pursue a football career or not. Adding a couple of new A-League franchises only gives "opportunity" to a dozen or so young players who will waste those valuable years missing out on actual competitive game minutes. An NST also provides an avenue for AL clubs to loan out young players to NST squads to actually get minutes.
Again, you need that level of money to compete. A liveable salary is what, 85-90k a year? Assuming every player is on the 85k minimum, that's 17M a year for 200 players. To also replace those clubs in the NPL, you need to have clubs who can step up. Not many clubs can step up to the NPL level.

I agree with the second point on adding 1 or 2 clubs to the A-league is not a huge pool to expand with, however, you need to consider that we wont have a long conveyor belt of players ready to step up if all of a sudden we create a 2nd tier. There will be quite a gap as the development of players is not up to the standard required. Again, we need to sure up the structure whilst building at the top. We are doing neither of those things.
 
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