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A-league attendances 24/25

interesting stats fellas....
Makes me think outside the square.
Do people really think our game due to the early heyday honeymoon AL introduction that "large full stads" would be the norm week in week out like we see EPL and other EU leagues ?
The young new dawners as labelled for AL, putting aside the many management screw ups do you really think they are week in week out regular supporters in the big picture ?
This countries record suggests not unless its a big ticket event.
We are left with franchise owners stuck with large stad contracts and expectations of the AL now APL.
Put aside the usual big ticket derbies the rest just seems to me 10k is a fair average crowd.
Gosford at 20k capacity is pretty much the right size venue imo.
After all this is oztralia, we are not a football nation even today as the current Pro level is.
 
LFC said:
interesting stats fellas....
Makes me think outside the square.
Do people really think our game due to the early heyday honeymoon AL introduction that "large full stads" would be the norm week in week out like we see EPL and other EU leagues ?
The young new dawners as labelled for AL, putting aside the many management screw ups do you really think they are week in week out regular supporters in the big picture ?
This countries record suggests not unless its a big ticket event.
We are left with franchise owners stuck with large stad contracts and expectations of the AL now APL.
Put aside the usual big ticket derbies the rest just seems to me 10k is a fair average crowd.
Gosford at 20k capacity is pretty much the right size venue imo.
After all this is oztralia, we are not a football nation even today as the current Pro level is.
Click to expand...

This is a really good post.

Football in Australia, will never ever compete with the AFL or NRL, who are both absolutely flying in many metrics.

The league needs to focus on carving out a small market share of the overall sporting landscape, and sticking with it. One of the main issues is trying to be something that its not.

Stay in their lane, control what they can control and push ahead from there.
 
LFC said:
interesting stats fellas....
Makes me think outside the square.
Do people really think our game due to the early heyday honeymoon AL introduction that "large full stads" would be the norm week in week out like we see EPL and other EU leagues ?
The young new dawners as labelled for AL, putting aside the many management screw ups do you really think they are week in week out regular supporters in the big picture ?
This countries record suggests not unless its a big ticket event.
We are left with franchise owners stuck with large stad contracts and expectations of the AL now APL.
Put aside the usual big ticket derbies the rest just seems to me 10k is a fair average crowd.
Gosford at 20k capacity is pretty much the right size venue imo.
After all this is oztralia, we are not a football nation even today as the current Pro level is.
Click to expand...
our ceiling for domestic football would be much higher if we had a bigger participation base. If we had the number of players per capita as Italy we would more than double, if England we would quadruple
 
LFC said:
yer but thats moot grazor, its all IF and we are not going to flip that.
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I think the fa should have a lot more emphasis on the participation rate. Unfortunately I think they are under the delusion it is good because it is higher than other codes. But it is easier to play football than rugby league or afl if you are are an amateur. 1% of football Australia's budget go to grass roots compared to 15% in england. I talked to an 3rd div club the other day and they said that if they were given another field they would take on another 300 because they have to turn a lot away. They track their rejected players and around half of them leave the game to play no sport and a bunch others go to other sports. So our underinvestment in the grass roots means the pie is too small to support a big league at the top
 
CentreHalf said:
This is a really good post.

Football in Australia, will never ever compete with the AFL or NRL, who are both absolutely flying in many metrics.

The league needs to focus on carving out a small market share of the overall sporting landscape, and sticking with it. One of the main issues is trying to be something that its not.

Stay in their lane, control what they can control and push ahead from there.
Click to expand...
hey and welcome to GG mate.

Look as the regulars know me I'm no big huge fan of the AL but a huge fan for our game to make its potential here thats for sure.

Your quote of needing to focus on OUR game, thats the prob this whole model hadn't considered that but for turn stile $$$'s to back up the great sponsership we had never seen back in the NSL days.
We got great money support into the game but what was done with it ?
Not much but to keep the model afloat to this day and just as it seems now.
HTF do you survive having a 500k spend from your Franchisor on top of your expense's.
Its given us a false NRL/AFL dawn for thats the path they wanted and worse people are convinced it can be because its a far more polished business than NSL never dreamed of.
Yep focus on our market the game, the grass roots, the eco system, work on that stay in our lane and it would grow.
Most of us in the football eco system are not franchise model types that I get when visiting grounds week in week out.
 
grazorblade said:
I think the fa should have a lot more emphasis on the participation rate. Unfortunately I think they are under the delusion it is good because it is higher than other codes. But it is easier to play football than rugby league or afl if you are are an amateur. 1% of football Australia's budget go to grass roots compared to 15% in england. I talked to an 3rd div club the other day and they said that if they were given another field they would take on another 300 because they have to turn a lot away. They track their rejected players and around half of them leave the game to play no sport and a bunch others go to other sports. So our underinvestment in the grass roots means the pie is too small to support a big league at the top
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hey I agree wholeheartedly the FA and the Feds should be doing alot more on the ground work at grass roots grazor and more funds provided.
See look at that UK diff you mention.
We lack grounds galore, we have to share grounds with other codes And we have to cut games down end of season due to cricket !
The facilities are 2nd rate for the modern age but the FA reap the rewards of the high participation regos FFS.
All of this impedes "growth" to the top And we lose so so many up and comers to other codes or just plain give the game away as mentioned.
We currently have a nice looking front and back covered book with a mess of a storey in between.
This is on the FA and we have the APL on its own, I've said it for ages, 2 models don't work as one.
 
grazorblade said:
I think the fa should have a lot more emphasis on the participation rate. Unfortunately I think they are under the delusion it is good because it is higher than other codes. But it is easier to play football than rugby league or afl if you are are an amateur. 1% of football Australia's budget go to grass roots compared to 15% in england. I talked to an 3rd div club the other day and they said that if they were given another field they would take on another 300 because they have to turn a lot away. They track their rejected players and around half of them leave the game to play no sport and a bunch others go to other sports. So our underinvestment in the grass roots means the pie is too small to support a big league at the top
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We have a similar problem here - hence the FA audit of fields. On the Central Coast we are hamstrung with lack of grounds. Some of the cricket grounds that could have at least 2 full size fields operating 7am - 5pm Saturday and Sunday (as most if not all football grounds are) are set aside for AFL that may play a game each weekend. Oher AFL grounds are used but a lot are underutilised and could be shared by local AFL clubs
 
grazorblade said:
12 match trundling seems to show they might still be in decline
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Yeah it's tight. Hopefully they've just touched the bottom and get moving upwards from here. Amazing how their crowds dropped off a cliff as soon as they adopted the City Blue kit for 2017-18. The name change and ownership didn't seem to have a negative affect on their crowds, it was quite positive actually. But changing their colours, unacceptable I guess. Or was there some other reason for the decline at that time? Gallop's "list" was two season earlier, so it couldn't have been that.

They need that Dandenong stadium though. Question for everyone, especially City fans. Do you think the crowds at Dandenong would be higher, lower, or much the same? Today you have fans coming to the city from all over. What would happen in the south-east? More local fans? More diehards? More passion? But lose the fans from elsewhere? I don't know...

A 10k stadium would give enough room based on their current average. But that average is based on a central location. So would more or less people be turning up in the south-east?
 
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HappyGuus said:
Yeah it's tight. Hopefully they've just touched the bottom and get moving upwards from here. Amazing how their crowds dropped off a cliff as soon as they adopted the City Blue kit for 2017-18. The name change and ownership didn't seem to have a negative affect on their crowds, it was quite positive actually. But changing their colours, unacceptable I guess. Or was there some other reason for the decline at that time? Gallop's "list" was two season earlier, so it couldn't have been that.

They need that Dandenong stadium though. Question for everyone, especially City fans. Do you think the crowds at Dandenong would be higher, lower, or much the same? Today you have fans coming to the city from all over. What would happen in the south-east? More local fans? More diehards? More passion? But lose the fans from elsewhere? I don't know...

A 10k stadium would give enough room based on their current average. But that average is based on a central location. So would more or less people be turning up in the south-east?
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Thanks for the chart @HappyGuus .

It definitely shows that City crowds are on a downward trend. As for travelling to Dandenong that would leave me out as the drive would be over an hour, so that would restrict me to 3pm KO at best. Whether there is someone at DNG to take my place, is anybody's guess.

Other posters note the lack of grounds but I do know from media reports that in NSW the local councils around Newcastle have rejected plans to create more grounds or academies. Not sure about the central coast. In QLD, the state government controls where the grounds are going to be and they are not being 'helpful'. But definitely need smaller grounds.

As to why crowds have dropped off? I think that with the CFG takeover a lot of the Heart supporters just drifted away with little replacement. I also noted that CFG aren't big with the fan engagement.

But to flip the question - how do smaller sports survive in Europe? Rugby vs Football? Handball vs Football? Basketball vs Football?
 
Hellenic_blue&white said:
Mate most of stop reading at "big time", about there we almost passed out from laughter...

As for the crickets im sure there are enough of those louder at certain franchise games than the crowds, despite the double head counts or you not caring to admit it...
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Unfortunately, it’s the only fully professional league we have, so for Australia it very much is the “big time”. And I understand and sympathize that your “A-League angst” comes from being unfairly excluded from the “big time”. But you’d still jump at the chance to get in……….
 
Kitwally said:
Unfortunately, it’s the only fully professional league we have, so for Australia it very much is the “big time”. And I understand and sympathize that your “A-League angst” comes from being unfairly excluded from the “big time”. But you’d still jump at the chance to get in……….
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Thats where you continue to be wrong mate..... I actually wouldnt want to be a part of it, not in its current state, only if your "big time" pro league was torn down and rebuilt with pro/rel like we've previously stated (that time has long passed where that was a desire withheld from us without merrit) - if you have proof of me saying otherwise I suggest you quote me!! I assure you there is no backflips here!

We wont agree overall on many fronts and thats ok, but will however agree with you on the "unfortunate part" ... its unfortunate that the same failures occured for the so called mainstream pro league as the NSL but on a grander scale, its unfortunate that you wont admit the failures or push for change, its more unfortunate that you continue despite the proof to see the NSL and old football as the key problem of the game even now!

Im also confident that logicqlly we would also agree that change is a necessity to move forward or die.. what that may mean may differ on many fronts and co exist on others.

For me there are 2 avenues either kill it again (by merging it into a superleague with all after a couple of seasons of NST to prepare all for the rehash) or just open it up and take advantage of old rivalries aswell as new from now. Sell the rebirth as "uniting football and all inclusive" ... and let the cream rise to the top!
Then there will be no more excuses for anyone!
 
Hellenic_blue&white said:
Thats where you continue to be wrong mate..... I actually wouldnt want to be a part of it, not in its current state, only if your "big time" pro league was torn down and rebuilt with pro/rel like we've previously stated (that time has long passed where that was a desire withheld from us without merrit) - if you have proof of me saying otherwise I suggest you quote me!! I assure you there is no backflips here!

We wont agree overall on many fronts and thats ok, but will however agree with you on the "unfortunate part" ... its unfortunate that the same failures occured for the so called mainstream pro league as the NSL but on a grander scale, its unfortunate that you wont admit the failures or push for change, its more unfortunate that you continue despite the proof to see the NSL and old football as the key problem of the game even now!

Im also confident that logicqlly we would also agree that change is a necessity to move forward or die.. what that may mean may differ on many fronts and co exist on others.

For me there are 2 avenues either kill it again (by merging it into a superleague with all after a couple of seasons of NST to prepare all for the rehash) or just open it up and take advantage of old rivalries aswell as new from now. Sell the rebirth as "uniting football and all inclusive" ... and let the cream rise to the top!
Then there will be no more excuses for anyone!
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Lies, if you were a proper supporter, as you say you are, then you would support your team if they were in next seasons A league, regardless of the state of the league.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Lies, if you were a proper supporter, as you say you are, then you would support your team if they were in next seasons A league, regardless of the state of the league.
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I think you may be misreading some of what he said Bear.

He is saying he does not want to be a part of the AL in its current form - but nowhere is he saying he would stop supporting them if they got in somehow.

It is a similar line to Mono's. They do not agree with the AL and what it represents - but I have no doubt they will follow their club whatever league/format they end up in.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Lies, if you were a proper supporter, as you say you are, then you would support your team if they were in next seasons A league, regardless of the state of the league.
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Lies?? Not a true supporter? Like then, when i wasnt the right fit for the new dawn etc etc....very inclusive of you yet again!! Then you wonder why the hate? But hey, its the flying bat thats the issue apparently!?!

Consider this a free lesson though... bc you are parading as proof of the downfall of the educational system in this country!! As a true blue "mainstreamer" i assume English isnt YOUR second language not to be able to read or comprehend that which you are supposedly reading!! ..so where exactly did i say I wouldnt support my team in anything?? I said i wouldnt want my team to be part of the existing system bc its failed .. if that for you is the same as im lying then i suggest you spend less time at your franchise and more time hitting the books, perhaps start with dr#seuss to ease into the art..

To make it easier yet again and in laymans terms, for the "intelectually inept" : What i said clearly and concisely was that i dont want my team as part of your league without changes that will.propel the game to where it truly should be with all included!
 
Hellenic_blue&white said:
Lies?? Not a true supporter? Like then, when i wasnt the right fit for the new dawn etc etc....very inclusive of you yet again!! Then you wonder why the hate? But hey, its the flying bat thats the issue apparently!?!

Consider this a free lesson though... bc you are parading as proof of the downfall of the educational system in this country!! As a true blue "mainstreamer" i assume English isnt YOUR second language not to be able to read or comprehend that which you are supposedly reading!! ..so where exactly did i say I wouldnt support my team in anything?? I said i wouldnt want my team to be part of the existing system bc its failed .. if that for you is the same as im lying then i suggest you spend less time at your franchise and more time hitting the books, perhaps start with dr#seuss to ease into the art..

To make it easier yet again and in laymans terms, for the "intelectually inept" : What i said clearly and concisely was that i dont want my team as part of your league without changes that will.propel the game to where it truly should be with all included!
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I am not from this country. ( thankfully)
 
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