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A-league attendances 24/25

patjennings said:
I've taken a random year 2013-2014 and compared crowns to this season.

What is really noticeable is the huge drop off in BNE crowds (end of Ange era and too large a stadium?) and MVC (FA crackdown?). SFC and ADL have held up pretty well. MCI are down a bit (probably affected by smaller derby crowd because of MVC issues?). CCM are down but building off a low
base after 5 or 6 lean years before their recent success and will probably end up at around 8,000 for the season. Glory had a good season in 2013-2014 and a poor one this year so their numbers are understandable. WSW also down markedly after their initial success and their Homebush sojourn.

It must be noted that this seasons figures are up around 21% on last season. 2013-2014 was probably the last real zenith so figures will look bad in comparison.

This season

ClubGamesTotalAverage+/-

AFC		6106,81417,802-

SFC		474,74318,68631%

WEL		446,63111,65830%

NUJ		322,2937,43130%

WUN		520,8494,17027%

MVC		566,15813,2328%

ADL		553,56910,7147%

MCI		435,7748,9445%

GLY		530,6936,1393%

WSW		662,93010,4882%

BNE		426,6686,667-1%

CCM		749,3367,048-3%

MAC		415,5713,893-8%
Total62612,0299,87121%


This season2013-2014
ClubGamesTotalAverageGamesTotalAverage+/-

AFC		6106,81417,802000100.00%

WUN		520,8494,170000100.00%

MAC		415,5713,893000100.00%

WEL		446,63111,65813106,4218,18629.78%

SFC		474,74318,68614261,54318,6820.02%

ADL		553,56910,71413145,92811,225-4.77%

MCI		435,7748,94414137,1879,799-9.56%

CCM		749,3367,04814131,5679,398-33.34%

WSW		662,93010,48813193,17714,860-41.69%

GLY		530,6936,13913122,4319,418-53.41%

NUJ		322,2937,43114167,28511,949-60.80%

MVC		566,15813,23213283,50721,808-64.81%

BNE		426,6686,66714209,39414,957-124.34%
Total:62612,0299,8711351,758,44013025-31.96%
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. I can't see BNE & PG improving these figures this season and it may take years to recover. I don't understand MVC's nor WSW's figures and that is a concern. The rest need to do better.
 
WhatAmIWatching said:
Thanks for that. I can't see BNE & PG improving these figures this season and it may take years to recover. I don't understand MVC's nor WSW's figures and that is a concern. The rest need to do better.
Click to expand...
WSW is down to two factors. Disgruntled fans and poor on-field performance. Excluding the current season, if you look at total competition points earned over the course of their history they are pretty average/poor. From memory they have only got 10-20 more points than the Roar over the same period. In other words, they are very much a middle table team and have been for some time. They also haven't won any silverware for a considerable amount of time. Being a middle table club can be worse than being a bottom club. At least a bottom club gets the whole underdog status.

MV is a bit more nuanced and complicated. More a case of a bunch of tiny little issues rather than one or two big issues. Membership numbers are still very good though.
 
Disgruntled fans.....
5e6bcf49-2b5f-42c6-9c53-91badba25aaf.png

Poor on-field performance.....
5e6bcf49-2b5f-42c6-9c53-91badba25aaf.png
 
WhatAmIWatching said:
It would be interesting to see attendance figure year on year for MCY vs Nix. My gut feel is that the attendance figure is about average for these games as there aren't that many Nix followers although the away bay was quite noisy and almost full.
Click to expand...
Heart/City average 7,262 at home against Wellington.

Here's a chart I put together for the Heart/City crowds at Swan St, excluding derbies (because Victory would account for 75%), finals, and COVID era. 12 match trendline included.

1736158784013.png
 
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HappyGuus said:
Heart/City average 7,262 at home against Wellington.

Here's a chart I put together for the Heart/City crowds at Swan St, excluding derbies (because Victory would account for 75%) and finals. 12 match trendline included.

View attachment 716
Click to expand...
12 match trundling seems to show they might still be in decline
 
patjennings said:
I've taken a random year 2013-2014 and compared crowns to this season.

What is really noticeable is the huge drop off in BNE crowds (end of Ange era and too large a stadium?) and MVC (FA crackdown?). SFC and ADL have held up pretty well. MCI are down a bit (probably affected by smaller derby crowd because of MVC issues?). CCM are down but building off a low base after 5 or 6 lean years before their recent success and will probably end up at around 8,000 for the season. Glory had a good season in 2013-2014 and a poor one this year so their numbers are understandable. WSW also down markedly after their initial success and their Homebush sojourn.

It must be noted that this seasons figures are up around 21% on last season. 2013-2014 was probably the last real zenith so figures will look bad in comparison.

This season

ClubGamesTotalAverage+/-

AFC		6106,81417,802-

SFC		474,74318,68631%

WEL		446,63111,65830%

NUJ		322,2937,43130%

WUN		520,8494,17027%

MVC		566,15813,2328%

ADL		553,56910,7147%

MCI		435,7748,9445%

GLY		530,6936,1393%

WSW		662,93010,4882%

BNE		426,6686,667-1%

CCM		749,3367,048-3%

MAC		415,5713,893-8%
Total62612,0299,87121%


This season2013-2014
ClubGamesTotalAverageGamesTotalAverage+/-

AFC		6106,81417,802000100.00%

WUN		520,8494,170000100.00%

MAC		415,5713,893000100.00%

WEL		446,63111,65813106,4218,18629.78%

SFC		474,74318,68614261,54318,6820.02%

ADL		553,56910,71413145,92811,225-4.77%

MCI		435,7748,94414137,1879,799-9.56%

CCM		749,3367,04814131,5679,398-33.34%

WSW		662,93010,48813193,17714,860-41.69%

GLY		530,6936,13913122,4319,418-53.41%

NUJ		322,2937,43114167,28511,949-60.80%

MVC		566,15813,23213283,50721,808-64.81%

BNE		426,6686,66714209,39414,957-124.34%
Total:62612,0299,8711351,758,44013025-31.96%
Click to expand...
I'd like to say bakries out, but unless they are being bought out....can the apl afford to prop up a club at the moment?

Slow gradually growth is probably OK. 10 years of an average of 3 percent growth and you have a thriving league. Most of the growth is probably healing old wounds of the war on active support, gf decision and covid
 
interesting stats fellas....
Makes me think outside the square.
Do people really think our game due to the early heyday honeymoon AL introduction that "large full stads" would be the norm week in week out like we see EPL and other EU leagues ?
The young new dawners as labelled for AL, putting aside the many management screw ups do you really think they are week in week out regular supporters in the big picture ?
This countries record suggests not unless its a big ticket event.
We are left with franchise owners stuck with large stad contracts and expectations of the AL now APL.
Put aside the usual big ticket derbies the rest just seems to me 10k is a fair average crowd.
Gosford at 20k capacity is pretty much the right size venue imo.
After all this is oztralia, we are not a football nation even today as the current Pro level is.
 
LFC said:
interesting stats fellas....
Makes me think outside the square.
Do people really think our game due to the early heyday honeymoon AL introduction that "large full stads" would be the norm week in week out like we see EPL and other EU leagues ?
The young new dawners as labelled for AL, putting aside the many management screw ups do you really think they are week in week out regular supporters in the big picture ?
This countries record suggests not unless its a big ticket event.
We are left with franchise owners stuck with large stad contracts and expectations of the AL now APL.
Put aside the usual big ticket derbies the rest just seems to me 10k is a fair average crowd.
Gosford at 20k capacity is pretty much the right size venue imo.
After all this is oztralia, we are not a football nation even today as the current Pro level is.
Click to expand...

This is a really good post.

Football in Australia, will never ever compete with the AFL or NRL, who are both absolutely flying in many metrics.

The league needs to focus on carving out a small market share of the overall sporting landscape, and sticking with it. One of the main issues is trying to be something that its not.

Stay in their lane, control what they can control and push ahead from there.
 
LFC said:
interesting stats fellas....
Makes me think outside the square.
Do people really think our game due to the early heyday honeymoon AL introduction that "large full stads" would be the norm week in week out like we see EPL and other EU leagues ?
The young new dawners as labelled for AL, putting aside the many management screw ups do you really think they are week in week out regular supporters in the big picture ?
This countries record suggests not unless its a big ticket event.
We are left with franchise owners stuck with large stad contracts and expectations of the AL now APL.
Put aside the usual big ticket derbies the rest just seems to me 10k is a fair average crowd.
Gosford at 20k capacity is pretty much the right size venue imo.
After all this is oztralia, we are not a football nation even today as the current Pro level is.
Click to expand...
our ceiling for domestic football would be much higher if we had a bigger participation base. If we had the number of players per capita as Italy we would more than double, if England we would quadruple
 
LFC said:
yer but thats moot grazor, its all IF and we are not going to flip that.
Click to expand...
I think the fa should have a lot more emphasis on the participation rate. Unfortunately I think they are under the delusion it is good because it is higher than other codes. But it is easier to play football than rugby league or afl if you are are an amateur. 1% of football Australia's budget go to grass roots compared to 15% in england. I talked to an 3rd div club the other day and they said that if they were given another field they would take on another 300 because they have to turn a lot away. They track their rejected players and around half of them leave the game to play no sport and a bunch others go to other sports. So our underinvestment in the grass roots means the pie is too small to support a big league at the top
 
CentreHalf said:
This is a really good post.

Football in Australia, will never ever compete with the AFL or NRL, who are both absolutely flying in many metrics.

The league needs to focus on carving out a small market share of the overall sporting landscape, and sticking with it. One of the main issues is trying to be something that its not.

Stay in their lane, control what they can control and push ahead from there.
Click to expand...
hey and welcome to GG mate.

Look as the regulars know me I'm no big huge fan of the AL but a huge fan for our game to make its potential here thats for sure.

Your quote of needing to focus on OUR game, thats the prob this whole model hadn't considered that but for turn stile $$$'s to back up the great sponsership we had never seen back in the NSL days.
We got great money support into the game but what was done with it ?
Not much but to keep the model afloat to this day and just as it seems now.
HTF do you survive having a 500k spend from your Franchisor on top of your expense's.
Its given us a false NRL/AFL dawn for thats the path they wanted and worse people are convinced it can be because its a far more polished business than NSL never dreamed of.
Yep focus on our market the game, the grass roots, the eco system, work on that stay in our lane and it would grow.
Most of us in the football eco system are not franchise model types that I get when visiting grounds week in week out.
 
grazorblade said:
I think the fa should have a lot more emphasis on the participation rate. Unfortunately I think they are under the delusion it is good because it is higher than other codes. But it is easier to play football than rugby league or afl if you are are an amateur. 1% of football Australia's budget go to grass roots compared to 15% in england. I talked to an 3rd div club the other day and they said that if they were given another field they would take on another 300 because they have to turn a lot away. They track their rejected players and around half of them leave the game to play no sport and a bunch others go to other sports. So our underinvestment in the grass roots means the pie is too small to support a big league at the top
Click to expand...
hey I agree wholeheartedly the FA and the Feds should be doing alot more on the ground work at grass roots grazor and more funds provided.
See look at that UK diff you mention.
We lack grounds galore, we have to share grounds with other codes And we have to cut games down end of season due to cricket !
The facilities are 2nd rate for the modern age but the FA reap the rewards of the high participation regos FFS.
All of this impedes "growth" to the top And we lose so so many up and comers to other codes or just plain give the game away as mentioned.
We currently have a nice looking front and back covered book with a mess of a storey in between.
This is on the FA and we have the APL on its own, I've said it for ages, 2 models don't work as one.
 
grazorblade said:
I think the fa should have a lot more emphasis on the participation rate. Unfortunately I think they are under the delusion it is good because it is higher than other codes. But it is easier to play football than rugby league or afl if you are are an amateur. 1% of football Australia's budget go to grass roots compared to 15% in england. I talked to an 3rd div club the other day and they said that if they were given another field they would take on another 300 because they have to turn a lot away. They track their rejected players and around half of them leave the game to play no sport and a bunch others go to other sports. So our underinvestment in the grass roots means the pie is too small to support a big league at the top
Click to expand...
We have a similar problem here - hence the FA audit of fields. On the Central Coast we are hamstrung with lack of grounds. Some of the cricket grounds that could have at least 2 full size fields operating 7am - 5pm Saturday and Sunday (as most if not all football grounds are) are set aside for AFL that may play a game each weekend. Oher AFL grounds are used but a lot are underutilised and could be shared by local AFL clubs
 
grazorblade said:
12 match trundling seems to show they might still be in decline
Click to expand...
Yeah it's tight. Hopefully they've just touched the bottom and get moving upwards from here. Amazing how their crowds dropped off a cliff as soon as they adopted the City Blue kit for 2017-18. The name change and ownership didn't seem to have a negative affect on their crowds, it was quite positive actually. But changing their colours, unacceptable I guess. Or was there some other reason for the decline at that time? Gallop's "list" was two season earlier, so it couldn't have been that.

They need that Dandenong stadium though. Question for everyone, especially City fans. Do you think the crowds at Dandenong would be higher, lower, or much the same? Today you have fans coming to the city from all over. What would happen in the south-east? More local fans? More diehards? More passion? But lose the fans from elsewhere? I don't know...

A 10k stadium would give enough room based on their current average. But that average is based on a central location. So would more or less people be turning up in the south-east?
 
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HappyGuus said:
Yeah it's tight. Hopefully they've just touched the bottom and get moving upwards from here. Amazing how their crowds dropped off a cliff as soon as they adopted the City Blue kit for 2017-18. The name change and ownership didn't seem to have a negative affect on their crowds, it was quite positive actually. But changing their colours, unacceptable I guess. Or was there some other reason for the decline at that time? Gallop's "list" was two season earlier, so it couldn't have been that.

They need that Dandenong stadium though. Question for everyone, especially City fans. Do you think the crowds at Dandenong would be higher, lower, or much the same? Today you have fans coming to the city from all over. What would happen in the south-east? More local fans? More diehards? More passion? But lose the fans from elsewhere? I don't know...

A 10k stadium would give enough room based on their current average. But that average is based on a central location. So would more or less people be turning up in the south-east?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the chart @HappyGuus .

It definitely shows that City crowds are on a downward trend. As for travelling to Dandenong that would leave me out as the drive would be over an hour, so that would restrict me to 3pm KO at best. Whether there is someone at DNG to take my place, is anybody's guess.

Other posters note the lack of grounds but I do know from media reports that in NSW the local councils around Newcastle have rejected plans to create more grounds or academies. Not sure about the central coast. In QLD, the state government controls where the grounds are going to be and they are not being 'helpful'. But definitely need smaller grounds.

As to why crowds have dropped off? I think that with the CFG takeover a lot of the Heart supporters just drifted away with little replacement. I also noted that CFG aren't big with the fan engagement.

But to flip the question - how do smaller sports survive in Europe? Rugby vs Football? Handball vs Football? Basketball vs Football?
 
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