Expansion Thread

[someguyjc]

Again, you need that level of money to compete. A liveable salary is what, 85-90k a year? Assuming every player is on the 85k minimum, that's 17M a year for 200 players. To also replace those clubs in the NPL, you need to have clubs who can step up. Not many clubs can step up to the NPL level.

I agree with the second point on adding 1 or 2 clubs to the A-league is not a huge pool to expand with, however, you need to consider that we wont have a long conveyor belt of players ready to step up if all of a sudden we create a 2nd tier. There will be quite a gap as the development of players is not up to the standard required. Again, we need to sure up the structure whilst building at the top. We are doing neither of those things.

Your calculations are way way off mate. With the reduction of the salary cap, A-League clubs aren't even spending that much on players. From memory the current min wage as set in the CBA for an A-League player aged 16-19 is 55k. As I mentioned in an earlier post, football in Australia is not a career choice for young people who don't have support structure around them.
The NPL already has multi tier P&R. Clubs are actively trying to get promoted to the next level already. Absolutely no problem filling that void as the system is already in place. No shortage of clubs ready to step up.
Disagree about shortage of players. Just look at the Australia Cup. Plenty of players are ready to step up. Conveyor belt is huge, just not enough opportunities.

 

[southoftheyarra]

Your calculations are way way off mate. With the reduction of the salary cap, A-League clubs aren't even spending that much on players. From memory the current min wage as set in the CBA for an A-League player aged 16-19 is 55k. As I mentioned in an earlier post, football in Australia is not a career choice for young people who don't have support structure around them.
The NPL already has multi tier P&R. Clubs are actively trying to get promoted to the next level already. Absolutely no problem filling that void as the system is already in place. No shortage of clubs ready to step up.
Disagree about shortage of players. Just look at the Australia Cup. Plenty of players are ready to step up. Conveyor belt is huge, just not enough opportunities.

I know that in vic (not sure about the other state leagues) over the last few seasons the gap between teams 1-5 on the ladder drops off when you get to about sixth, From memory South (1st) was around 20 points ahead of the team in 6th (dandy city who was in the 'finals series'). I think we really do need a 2nd division considering that that gap of quality in the npl(s) was getting bigger, so It makes more sense for these teams to play interstate, I know I harp on about this but the new u23's rule has sort of levelled out the league a little bit in terms of 'tallent' but I'm not really a fan of Merrick's approach to all of that.

 

[Kitwally]

You do realise that you don't need a Fremantle passport to support the team?

To follow Melbourne City do you have to live in Melbourne city? Lots of West Australians that live south of the river would identify themselves as Fremantledoms.

Up the Sailors!!! Freo, heav hooo!!!

Wouldn’t a better name for them be the Fremantle Seamen?

 

[zimbos05]

Your calculations are way way off mate. With the reduction of the salary cap, A-League clubs aren't even spending that much on players. From memory the current min wage as set in the CBA for an A-League player aged 16-19 is 55k. As I mentioned in an earlier post, football in Australia is not a career choice for young people who don't have support structure around them.
The NPL already has multi tier P&R. Clubs are actively trying to get promoted to the next level already. Absolutely no problem filling that void as the system is already in place. No shortage of clubs ready to step up.
Disagree about shortage of players. Just look at the Australia Cup. Plenty of players are ready to step up. Conveyor belt is huge, just not enough opportunities.

Ok, so not many will take 55k a year and be able to survive on that. I can't really see many just keeping that as their only job.
Yes NPL has P&R, I didn't say it didn't but some of the clubs in the lower tiers don't have set squads. There's a lot of chopping and changing between the levels.
There is a difference between having players, and having players of the standard.

 

[someguyjc]

Ok, so not many will take 55k a year and be able to survive on that. I can't really see many just keeping that as their only job.
Yes NPL has P&R, I didn't say it didn't but some of the clubs in the lower tiers don't have set squads. There's a lot of chopping and changing between the levels.
There is a difference between having players, and having players of the standard.

Correct for some people 55k is not enough, for others it is an acceptable stepping stone. A 17 year old on 55k a year to play football while living with Mum & Dad is a pretty damn good deal. Much better than working the fryer at Maccas or stacking shelves at Woolies.
I have no concerns about the standard of players. Our players are good, they just don't have the opportunities. You give them the opportunities and the standard rises.

 

[zimbos05]

Correct for some people 55k is not enough, for others it is an acceptable stepping stone. A 17 year old on 55k a year to play football while living with Mum & Dad is a pretty damn good deal. Much better than working the fryer at Maccas or stacking shelves at Woolies.
I have no concerns about the standard of players. Our players are good, they just don't have the opportunities. You give them the opportunities and the standard rises.

Football does not exist outside of the economic system. For a 17 year old at home, yes, but not everyone in one of those sides in a 17 year old living at home.
Having coached at an NPL level, I have some concerns about standards.

 

[someguyjc]

Football does not exist outside of the economic system. For a 17 year old at home, yes, but not everyone in one of those sides in a 17 year old living at home.
Having coached at an NPL level, I have some concerns about standards.

Correct, and unfortunately for them it becomes a very difficult choice. It sucks, but that's the way it is. In order for wages to increase, player value needs to increase. In order for player value to increase, players need to be playing (not sitting on the bench) at the highest possible competitive level. In order for that to happen, more playing opportunities at higher levels need to be created.

 

[LFC]

I'm sure your having concerns for NPL zimbos and I think from the Qld aspect rightly so and what we keep seeing in the press.

Moreton City made the AC Qrtrs.
QLions R16
Briz Olympic R16

They looked competitive - I know thats not enough but its showing the potential.
Your concerns are valid but as you know I'm big on change for its so so so overdue call it a reset.
We got the players, countless potentials, as years progress your concerns get addressed bit by bit, more players improving, salaries adjust, people adjust zimbos.
Obviously it needs the FA to get their finger on the pulse and direct - the Clubs and many as someguyfc mentions have put their hand up.
Give them the path and lets ride the rocky wave.

 

[someguyjc]

I'm sure your having concerns for NPL zimbos and I think from the Qld aspect rightly so and what we keep seeing in the press.

Moreton City made the AC Qrtrs.
QLions R16
Briz Olympic R16

They looked competitive - I know thats not enough but its showing the potential.

Moreton City knocked out an A-League side. Granted Glory are a bit shit right now, but at the time they had just put 5 past MC the week earlier.
Brisbane Olympic choked at the end of the game, but they were leading 1:2 for most of the game at Lakeside against a very in-form Sth Melbourne. Very respectable.
Both Lions and Moreton were ultimately dominated by WSW and MV, but you'd fully expect that.
The fact is all three were competitive against good opposition.
No shortage of talent being produced in QLD. Definitely enough for a couple of NST squads.

 

[LFC]

yep hear you mate.
Granted off season or say pre season for the APL clubs BUT they are full time PRO's !
Yep NPL's end of season but to put into perspective you'd put $ on the pro to win if your a gambling man.
I agree they played well and it shows the divide is closing being semi Pro.
We have an oyster thats right in front of your face, we keep having all this resistance/negative vibes nothing can change and work on the top ?
Seriously talk about a upside down cake grrrrrrrrrr

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Football does not exist outside of the economic system. For a 17 year old at home, yes, but not everyone in one of those sides in a 17 year old living at home.
Having coached at an NPL level, I have some concerns about standards.

Hey Zimbos, so playing pool aside, Im curious to know if you have any other objections to a 14-16 club full home and away NST forming in the next 2 years with promotion and relegation down to federation NPLs, and then with some luck to all state leagues below it?

 

[Ange's high line]

Notice all the activity by rusted on supporters yet, Apl sit idle, not doing anything, not moving the needle.
They do not deserve our support.
A new structure or competition with non A League clubs (some clubs invited), for football in this country would absolutely obliterate the A Leagues that exists today.

 

[grazorblade]

We actually have concrete information on the effects of expansion diluting the talent from today's pfa report

I will try and dig up the details. It looks like the dilution effect is quite small. I suspect an nst would modestly improve the league as a league clubs could then replace their worst players with the best nst players

 

[patjennings]

14 teams for mine.

Play everyone twice and then the finals series + Cup games. Thats still 30-35 games for a lot of clubs. A 30 game season + finals is too long + you will have to play a lot of mid-week games which clubs hate.

Bring in Canberra and the Sunshine Coast.

NST should have 14 teams also. Must have representation from Tasmania, SA and WA. Id limit it to three teams each from NSW and Vic considering already strong representation in the A-league

One thing i haven't taken into account is if Pro/rel does come around, how do the NZ clubs manage? They wont be relegated to an Australian Second division.

I'd still go for 16. and if you start at the right time you can still finish late May with only 1 midweek round.

e.g.

Australia Cup Semis
30/8/2025

NPLM GF
13/9/2025

Australia Cup Final
20/9/2025

ALM First round
27/9/2025

Observe FIFA dates but play 29 weekend rounds plus 1 midweek round per team.

ALM Final round
2/5/2026

ALM Finals
start 9/5/2026

ALM Grand Final
30/5/2026

 

[HappyGuus]

We actually have concrete information on the effects of expansion diluting the talent from today's pfa report

I will try and dig up the details. It looks like the dilution effect is quite small. I suspect an nst would modestly improve the league as a league clubs could then replace their worst players with the best nst players

I was looking at the Croatian pyramid the other day and how they go about it with a small population. Interesting to me was they only have 10 clubs in the top division, 12 in div 2, and 16 in div 3. Five regions below that lead into div 3. It does lead to the cream playing each other more at a higher standard, rather than having a larger league and filling the season with smacking minnows at the bottom.

 

[Sutherlandbear]

14 teams for mine.

Play everyone twice and then the finals series + Cup games. Thats still 30-35 games for a lot of clubs. A 30 game season + finals is too long + you will have to play a lot of mid-week games which clubs hate.

Bring in Canberra and the Sunshine Coast.

NST should have 14 teams also. Must have representation from Tasmania, SA and WA. Id limit it to three teams each from NSW and Vic considering already strong representation in the A-league

One thing i haven't taken into account is if Pro/rel does come around, how do the NZ clubs manage? They wont be relegated to an Australian Second division.

You can't be serious, 30 games plus finals, is too long ? Say it takes 34 weeks, that is still an 18 week off season. Off season should be 10 weeks, four weeks holiday and 6 weeks pre season, inc friendlies.

 

[grazorblade]

You can't be serious, 30 games plus finals, is too long ? Say it takes 34 weeks, that is still an 18 week off season. Off season should be 10 weeks, four weeks holiday and 6 weeks pre season, inc

Yeah id favour a unite round and a leagues cup to extend the season

You just dont improve as much in a short season

 

[HappyGuus]

You can't be serious, 30 games plus finals, is too long ? Say it takes 34 weeks, that is still an 18 week off season. Off season should be 10 weeks, four weeks holiday and 6 weeks pre season, inc friendlies.

Yeah we've been doing 32-34 weeks already for years. We just have a shitload of breaks!

 

[grazorblade]

Yeah we've been doing 32-34 weeks already for years. We just have a shitload of breaks!

wonder what's to stop us having a proper season at npl level? The gap between a league and npl level would close pretty quickly if npl played 38 games a year

In England seasons are long deep into the pyramid where things are still semi pro

 

[southoftheyarra]

Yeah id favour a unite round and a leagues cup to extend the season

You just dont improve as much in a short season

Please no unite round, its just a bit crap.