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Promotion and Relegation is vital for Football in Australia

TheSelectFew said:
Get rid of NZ and merge NNSW, ACT and NSW to reduce cost. Then you're fine.
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You could merge NNSW, ACT and NSW to reduce it from 10 to 8, no issue with that at all. But I feel those regions may be locked out from the NPL champions league playoffs due to the strength of the NSW based clubs that’s why I kept them split.

Regarding NZ, the only viable way existing NZ clubs can feasibly be part of the relegation equation would be if NZ was absorbed into the NPL system because then you would have a huge issue of where do NZ clubs go if they are relegated from the championship ? Do they exit the Australian pyramid ? If so how would they return to the pyramid ? Or if they are relegated to a state aus state conference that would put a huge burden on both NZ and AUS clubs as if NZ was allowed to play at home it would add significant costs to that state conference, and if they were not allowed to play at home, it would effectively kill their club by not having their supporters being able to support their club or go to matches.
 
HappyGuus said:
View attachment 1167

Banger of a first post, mate. Might as well close your account now because you won't better that haha. Any feedback feels like nitpicking.
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Hahah thanks! This is a pyramid that I’ve wanted to be adopted for years now. I’ve actually worked on a 30 page document for pro-rel pyramids it’s pros and cons that I wanted to submit to the FA but I doubt they would ever even read it if I sent it through.

My idea is just a template, it’s not the holy grail and obviously there are things that the community here can add or subtract from it to make it even better.
 
0x3mp1r3 said:
You could merge NNSW, ACT and NSW to reduce it from 10 to 8, no issue with that at all. But I feel those regions may be locked out from the NPL champions league playoffs due to the strength of the NSW based clubs that’s why I kept them split.

Regarding NZ, the only viable way existing NZ clubs can feasibly be part of the relegation equation would be if NZ was absorbed into the NPL system because then you would have a huge issue of where do NZ clubs go if they are relegated from the championship ? Do they exit the Australian pyramid ? If so how would they return to the pyramid ? Or if they are relegated to a state aus state conference that would put a huge burden on both NZ and AUS clubs as if NZ was allowed to play at home it would add significant costs to that state conference, and if they were not allowed to play at home, it would effectively kill their club by not having their supporters being able to support their club or go to matches.
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To add to this. Regarding NZ place in OFC champions league and prospective club World Cup qualification. Absorbing NZ into the pyramid shouldn’t have any effect on this.

The solution would be to have a NZ knockout comp featuring all NZ clubs with the winner of said knockout comp winning qualification to the OFC champions league similar to how Lichtenstein knockout comp qualifies them for UCL while their clubs play in another nations pyramid.
 
0x3mp1r3 said:
You could merge NNSW, ACT and NSW to reduce it from 10 to 8, no issue with that at all. But I feel those regions may be locked out from the NPL champions league playoffs due to the strength of the NSW based clubs that’s why I kept them split.

Regarding NZ, the only viable way existing NZ clubs can feasibly be part of the relegation equation would be if NZ was absorbed into the NPL system because then you would have a huge issue of where do NZ clubs go if they are relegated from the championship ? Do they exit the Australian pyramid ? If so how would they return to the pyramid ? Or if they are relegated to a state aus state conference that would put a huge burden on both NZ and AUS clubs as if NZ was allowed to play at home it would add significant costs to that state conference, and if they were not allowed to play at home, it would effectively kill their club by not having their supporters being able to support their club or go to matches.
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Just make NZ exempt. I don't really care what they do but including them makes things way too tough logistics-wise.

As for locking out etc., I feel NSW needs to sort their shit out regardless. This would be a good refresh opportunity.
 
0x3mp1r3 said:
Hahah thanks! This is a pyramid that I’ve wanted to be adopted for years now. I’ve actually worked on a 30 page document for pro-rel pyramids it’s pros and cons that I wanted to submit to the FA but I doubt they would ever even read it if I sent it through.

My idea is just a template, it’s not the holy grail and obviously there are things that the community here can add or subtract from it to make it even better.
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You could collect signatures to make it more likely the fa reads it
 
0x3mp1r3 said:
Ive been reading through this thread and I love the discussion being presented. In my opinion a full football pyramid needs to happen.

The only way I see Australian football progressing long term is by reconnecting all levels of the game in a complete pyramid. This will allow investment in all levels of the game by ambitious clubs and Australian businessmen to strive for promotion to the a-league. The following is what I would love to see implemented over the next 10-15 years.

A-League
National Second Division
NPL Champions League (end of each NPL Season)
National Premier Leagues


**A-League (14-16 teams)**

• Adelaide United

• Brisbane Roar

• Central Coast

• Macarthur FC

• Melbourne City

• Melbourne Victory

• Newcastle Jets

• Perth Glory

• Sydney FC

• Wellington Phoenix

• Western Sydney

• Western United

• Auckland FC

• *Expansion Team 14*

• *Expansion Team 15*

• *Expansion Team 16*



**16 Team League**

• Games: 30 matches H/A season

• Finals: Top 6

• Relegation: 1.5 slots (1 auto / 1 Playoff)



Relegation Rules:

• Relegation Automatic: None

• Relegation Playoff: 16th team 2-Leg Playoff with winner of Second Division Promotion Playoff.


**or if we cap at 14 Team League**

• Games: 26 matches H/A season

• Finals: Top 6

• Relegation: 1 Slot (Automatic)


Relegation Rules:

• Relegation Automatic: 14th Team Relegated

• Relegation Playoff: None



**National Second Division (16 Teams)**

• Marconi Stallions

• Cronulla/Sutherland

• Wollongong Wolves

• APIA Leichhardt / Sydney Olympic

• Sydney United

• Heidelberg United

• South Melbourne

• Preston Lions

• Melbourne Knights

• (Maybe a Geelong team)

• Brisbane Team

• Gold Coast United

• Canberra Team

• Adelaide City

• South Hobart

• Auckland City


• Games: 30 Matches H/A Season


Let’s say NSD is locked in at 16 teams. The Variable is the A-League above at 14-16 teams. So here are the following promotion variables.





**14 Team A-League**

• Promotion: 0 Auto, 1 Playoff

• Relegation: 0 Auto, 2 Playoff


Promotion Rules:

• Promotion Automatic: None

• Promotion Playoff: Top 4 Qualify

(Round 1: 1st v 4th & 2nd v 3rd (2-Leg))

(Final Playoff: Winner 1v4 vs Winner 2v3 (2-Leg))

(Winner of Round 2 Promoted to A-League)


Relegation Rules:

• Relegation Automatic: None

• Relegation Playoff: 15th team & 16th team in 2-Leg Playoff with winners of NPL Finals.


**16 Team A-League**

• Promotion: 1 Auto, 1 Playoff

• Relegation: 0 Auto, 2 Playoff


Promotion Rules:

• Promotion Automatic: League Winner

• Promotion Playoff: 2nd - 5th Qualify

(Round 1: 2nd v 5th & 3rd v 4th (2-Leg))

(Round 2: Winner 2v5 vs Winner 3v4 (2-Leg))

(Playoff 1: Round 2 Playoff winner vs 15th A-League (2-Leg))

(Winner of Playoff Promoted to A-League)


Relegation Rules:

• Relegation Automatic: None

• Relegation Playoff: 15th team & 16th team in 2-Leg Playoff with winners of NPL Finals.

_
_


**National Premier Leagues**

10 state conference leagues. With a 16 team NPL Champions League Final series to determine Promotion. Teams who qualify for NPL Champions league will earn co-efficient points to determine next seasons league qualifying positions. Coefficients will be a 5 year live average just like European champions league coefficients. In the first year all coefficients will be set zero.


Conferences:

• New South Wales (NPL NSW)

• Victoria (NPL VIC)

• Queensland (NPL QLD)

• South Australia (NPL SA)

• Western Australia (NPL WA)

• Northern Territory (NPL NT)

• Northern NSW (NPL NNSW)

• Tasmania (NPL TAS)

• Australian Capital (NPL ACT)

• New Zealand (NPL NZ)

_

**NPL Champions League**

Coefficient Ranking Places.

1st - 2 Slots

2nd - 2 Slots

3rd - 2 Slots

4th - 2 Slots

5th - 2 Slots

6th - 2 slots

7th - 1 Slot

8th - 1 Slot

9th - 1 Slot

10th - 1 Slot


Total 16 teams qualify.

• Group Phase: 4x Groups of 4 with total 3 Matches. (Top 2 go to Quarter Finals)

• Quarter Finals: 2-Legs

• Semi Finals: 2-Legs

• Promotion Final #1: Finalist vs 15th team NSD (2-Legs)

• Promotion Final #2: Finalist vs 16th team NSD (2-Legs





Would love to hear people’s thoughts on this
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OK one thing I've noticed here is the playoffs between divisions. Unfortunately, this can't be done between divisions that finish their seasons at different times of the year.

Have a peek at my post here about season timing, I've done an entire calendar haha:
HappyGuus

Post in thread 'The Australian Championship Thread'

Looking at the seasons again, these are the four options as I see it:

1. If NST aligns with A-League (summer):
NPL clubs promoted to NST have a 36 week off-season.

NST clubs relegated to NPL - 40 week off-season.

This could mean that a team that is promoted to NST then relegated back to NPL would only be able to play one season of football over 113 weeks. It won't work.

2. If NST aligns with NPL (winter):
NST clubs promoted to A-League - 56 week off-season. NST would actually finish 4 weeks before the next A-League season starts, but as the NST (and all leagues) need a...
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In short, playoffs between A-League and Championship can't occur unless they play their seasons at the same time. Likewise, can't have playoffs between NPL CL and Championship for the same reason.

There are three options for the Championship timing:
1. align with A-League and Asia and Europe.
2. align with NPL
3. Go inbetween. NPL starts around late February. Championship starts 14 weeks after that. A-League starts 14 weeks after that.

Option 1 means pro/rel, including playoffs, between A-League and Championship, but they are cut off from pro/rel and playoffs with NPL
Option 2 means pro/rel, including playoffs, between Championship and NPL, but they are cut off from pro/rel and playoffs with A-League.
Option 3 means we can have pro/rel between all of the pyramid, but can't inlude pro/rel playoffs between the divisions. This is the best/only option IMO for a fully connected and feasible pyramid. But in the short term we might see the Championship align with A-League first, then shift later.

I think season timing a critical piece of the "connected pyramid" puzzle. It has to be nailed down early for everything else to flow.
 
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