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Expansion Thread

zimbos05 said:
I think we can go on about this conversation for a long time. I don't disagree with a lot of the points many of you are making. Personally, I think there are far bigger issues that need to be resolved before we get a 2nd tier comp. From my working with FQ and NPL clubs, I have seen things that tell me any rapid expansion without sorting other issues will not benefit the game one bit.
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I agree with you... Expansion is an entertainment and economic consideration it has NOTHING to do with "the game" and its structure... Everything below the NST NEEDS to be aligned and many of the state fed differences put to bed
 
someguyjc said:
Absolutely and none of them should be holding back the progress of clubs in other states. Clubs like Sth Melbourne and Wollongong have been ready for a very long time now. The only thing holding them back is bureaucracy and lack of opportunity. To be honest, in QLD, it's getting to the point in which some sort of drastic industrial action might be be necessary to fix the issues. When you have a state fed actively and openly working against the clubs they are meant to represent, then something is very wrong. It's a massive shame as there are some fantastic QLD clubs that would make great additions to the NST.
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They have, but not all are. So how big is the 2nd comp? How many teams? What do we cap the A-league at as well? Do we add in teams for the sake of it to make the 2nd tier reasonable enough because some teams are ready and we are afraid to hold them back?

It is very much sad when you have state feds working against the benefit of the clubs. Let's now throw in more money to this equation. Do you think the terrible leadership is going to get fixed or will they entrench themselves because of the money floating around. We can't expect the structure to be successful if its foundations are shaky.
 
zimbos05 said:
They have, but not all are. So how big is the 2nd comp? How many teams? What do we cap the A-league at as well? Do we add in teams for the sake of it to make the 2nd tier reasonable enough because some teams are ready and we are afraid to hold them back?

It is very much sad when you have state feds working against the benefit of the clubs. Let's now throw in more money to this equation. Do you think the terrible leadership is going to get fixed or will they entrench themselves because of the money floating around. We can't expect the structure to be successful if its foundations are shaky.
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Current FA goal is for a 10-12 team NST. As it will be a national comp it will be owned and operated by FA. Teams are added based on the criteria set by FA. The state feds will not be involved in the NST. As for a cap on AL sides, that's a question for the APL.
 
someguyjc said:
Current FA goal is for a 10-12 team NST. As it will be a national comp it will be owned and operated by FA. Teams are added based on the criteria set by FA. The state feds will not be involved in the NST. As for a cap on AL sides, that's a question for the APL.
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Ok. So all sounds good in theory. Operated and owned by the FA has already created issues with state bodies.

Like i said, this conversation can go on and on, but the sad reality whether we like it or not is that Australian football has neglected its foundations for the best part of the last 10 years that to now try and build on that would be very shaky. At least this is my own view based on my experiences with football in this country over that time.

I don't see a NST fixing any issues, at least not any time soon. In fact, I have seen so much regression at the top level that further diluting the product will only make things worse. Let's fix the issues that are evidently present and use that to build on top of.
 
zimbos05 said:
Ok. So all sounds good in theory. Operated and owned by the FA has already created issues with state bodies.

Like i said, this conversation can go on and on, but the sad reality whether we like it or not is that Australian football has neglected its foundations for the best part of the last 10 years that to now try and build on that would be very shaky. At least this is my own view based on my experiences with football in this country over that time.

I don't see a NST fixing any issues, at least not any time soon. In fact, I have seen so much regression at the top level that further diluting the product will only make things worse. Let's fix the issues that are evidently present and use that to build on top of.
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But haven’t we been trying to fix the issues for the last twenty years?
 
grazorblade said:
what changes are needed to fix player pathways?
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There is no clear or structured process behind player pathways. In QLD for example, if you wan to progress, it seems that you need to go from your NPL club to the QAS or the Roar teams. Players are also shifted around the age groups without any clear thought or rhyme. It's all just a little chaotic. I get that you need the QAS, but the QAS teams are not serving to provide the next level, they are competing against the other clubs, so players feel they can't progress or develop from their own club.
 
zimbos05 said:
There is no clear or structured process behind player pathways. In QLD for example, if you wan to progress, it seems that you need to go from your NPL club to the QAS or the Roar teams. Players are also shifted around the age groups without any clear thought or rhyme. It's all just a little chaotic. I get that you need the QAS, but the QAS teams are not serving to provide the next level, they are competing against the other clubs, so players feel they can't progress or develop from their own club.
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Ok that's the problem, but I'm curious what the solution is in terms of specific steps the governing bodies can make. If I put you in charge of all governing bodies in Australia what specific steps are you making to make pathways more structured
 
grazorblade said:
Ok that's the problem, but I'm curious what the solution is in terms of specific steps the governing bodies can make. If I put you in charge of all governing bodies in Australia what specific steps are you making to make pathways more structured
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I don't know each state body in detail, so I can't answer that. With FQ, I would be setting up a school league. I would require all coaches within these leagues to have a minimum C licence and facilitate coaches obtaining these. I would then utilise the QAS not as a competition to other teams, but as a consolidation of other teams. The QAS would essentially serve to facilitate the teams, not take away from them. Stronger squads across a competition means more competitive games regularly.

There are plenty more things required, but this would be a start.
 
NoMates said:
Rather see a 3rd New Zealand team in Christchurch, they have a better stadium then Sth Melb Criminals, better players and would get way better crowds being the only pro club in all of NZ South island.
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Thats fascinating... I wish you well in your expansion bid.
 
zimbos05 said:
I don't know each state body in detail, so I can't answer that. With FQ, I would be setting up a school league. I would require all coaches within these leagues to have a minimum C licence and facilitate coaches obtaining these. I would then utilise the QAS not as a competition to other teams, but as a consolidation of other teams. The QAS would essentially serve to facilitate the teams, not take away from them. Stronger squads across a competition means more competitive games regularly.

There are plenty more things required, but this would be a start.
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Not trying to be contrary but what happens to all these players once they are too old for the school league? I agree with you 100% that pathways are broken and also to some degree that "Player pathways. Coach development. Nepotism. Infrastructure. Access to opportunity." are fundamental problems that need to be tackled and overcome.... But.... one of the ways that would help towards that is clearing up the bottleneck that occurs once these players reach a certain age and they have no other options apart from:
- sit on the bench and hope for gametime in one of 11 Australian clubs
- play NPL and work a primary job --
- go overseas and try your luck somewhere, anywhere
- stop playing alltogether.
 
zimbos05 said:
I don't know each state body in detail, so I can't answer that. With FQ, I would be setting up a school league. I would require all coaches within these leagues to have a minimum C licence and facilitate coaches obtaining these. I would then utilise the QAS not as a competition to other teams, but as a consolidation of other teams. The QAS would essentially serve to facilitate the teams, not take away from them. Stronger squads across a competition means more competitive games regularly.

There are plenty more things required, but this would be a start.
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State body's don't vary that much that I'm led to believe without looking into it, all have pretty similar league/systems down to grass roots you'd think.
NPL again each State have their own minor diffs but nothing out of the ordinary but seems FQ being 1 of the major east coast is the outlier the way that guy has been un co operative.
Absolutely agree coaching needs alot more support - $'s to encourage more get into it and taking up a C license a given.
Costs absorbed - plus intended new coachs should sign a 2 yr min agreement.
Where does QAS fit in though ? like an old AIS ?
Why not have the eco system from grass roots SAP to NPL1 or NST filter the players through ?
 
southoftheyarra said:
Id also love to see more money going into refereeing courses, it had gotten better in nplvic since early npl days (circa 2014 to pre covid) but it has dropped off a bit last two seasons. Whats the refereeing like in the other state comps?
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I dont think other state federations have a CEO who is married to a club's president.... do they? :cool:
 
southoftheyarra said:
Id also love to see more money going into refereeing courses, it had gotten better in nplvic since early npl days (circa 2014 to pre covid) but it has dropped off a bit last two seasons. Whats the refereeing like in the other state comps?
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I have a couple of ex team mates still reffing Prem1/O35/45's etc depending where they are assigned.
All for the passion, around $60/70/80/90 bucks depending age/experience don't know what AR's get.
Muz is a local ref be interesting what NNSW pay.

Coaching pay is too low I'm led to believe by some spoken with (talking NPL3 down/YL) , they are pulled pillar to post one guy was saying when your a young bloke, toss either being a student/or work and then get to trainings 2/3/4 nights then weekend games.

MSC is a new remake of Troy in the making :)
 
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